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Language updates / Re: 'count to', wä and sequential genitive (discussion)
« Last post by aze on Today at 06:10:45 am »
Please take my words with a grain of salt, as I am not the most proficient with Na'vi.

1. kelku 'itanä karyuä A (home of son's teacher).
2. kelku karyuä 'itanä B (home of teacher's son).
3. 'itanä kelku karyuä A (home of son's teacher), but possibly incorrect
4. karyuä kelku 'itanä B (home of teacher's son), but possibly incorrect.
5. 'itanä karyuä kelku A (home of son's teacher).
6. karyuä 'itanä kelku B (home of teacher's son).

I feel as though the main thing that determines this for me is which one comes first, since there aren't any other clarifiers. I see 3 and 4 as feeling incorrect, I'm not sure why. It may be an english thing, or it may be that having the subject (home) between the two qualifiers (son and teacher, which dictate which home it is) confuses me even more. At the same time, however, unambiguous sentences don't feel 'wrong' to me even if they're not in stereotypical 'english' order. Still, as a primarily English speaker I tend to personally prefer having it in a linear order, even though Na'vi doesn't need to follow that pattern, so that may be why I don't like them as much.

The most interesting thing is that to me, despite this being my reflex reaction (re: the meanings), I could easily see both meanings in each sentence; this is to say that they are all ambiguous to me, because there don't appear to be any real markers to signify what's going on. I feel that in the case of a potentially ambiguous sentence / case, the first thing encountered should be treated as the 'dominant' meaning; in essence, if you first speak about the teacher, you should assume it's about the teacher's son (and in this example, as a result, the teacher's son's home). This could easily solve any ambiguity issues that come up.
Language updates / 'count to', wä and sequential genitive (discussion)
« Last post by Plumps on Today at 05:40:17 am »
Ma frapo,

I had the opportunity to ask K. Pawl about a few things that came up for discussion on the Discord server. So here it goes:

Quote from: me
How do we say “Count from 3 to 8”? Would tiam ta pxey vay vol suffice? Somebody suggested ne as the adposition. Pamìrìk suggested, since most people start from ’aw to just say tiam vay/ne vol.
Tsari pefya nga fpìl?

Quote from: K. Pawl
I like vay here. Ne implies motion towards something, and is used mainly with verbs of motion like kä, za'u, tätxaw, etc. But this brings up another question. What if it's not counting from 3 (up)to 8, but rather from 8 down to 3? Countdowns are certainly common! A similar situation occurs if, say, the temperature falls from 20 degrees to 15 degrees. What is "to"? Vay doesn't seem appropriate, since it implies "up to." I'm wondering if we need a new adposition meaning "down to" as the opposite of vay. […]

BTW, I think Tiam vay vol is fine.

So, it seems that there is another adposition needed for “down to”. Maybe something for a new LEP entry? :D Feel free to suggest things there.


Quote from: me
Could be used as the opposite of ìlä ‘according to (a person)’ in the sense of ‘contrary to (what somebody said)’ as in:

     Wä Feyral, muntxa ke soli Ralu sì Newey nìwan mesrram.
     “Contrary to what Peyral reported, Ralu and Newey were not secretly married the day before yesterday.”

Quote from: K. Pawl
I hadn't thought of that use of , but I like it. I don't see why it shouldn't be used in the way you've described. I also like tì’efuwä oeyä. It'd be used in sentences like, Tì’efuwä oeyä, fpìl Peyralìl futa ke zene ayoeng kivä. I.e., "I think we have to go, but Peyral doesn't."

And finally, the genitive question:

Quote from: me
The last one concerns multiple genitives: By now we only ever saw 2 genitives in sequence, e.g. in your example Pìlokä fìhapxìyä tìkan lu law. ‘The aim of this section of the blog is clear.’ The question arose whether there has to be a special sequence in order for it to make sense?

Mako said to this:

“I am willing to guarantee you that because the noun ending in -y/ä has to come next to the noun it is possessing […], the nouns have to be sequenced correctly in order for the sentence to make sense. Let me show it like this:
    (1) oeyä tsmukä tsko = oeyä } tsmukä { tsko or oeyä { tsmukä { tsko
    (2) tsmukä oeyä tsko = tsmukä } oeyä { tsko or tsmukä { oeyä { tsko
Only one of these options means “My sibling’s bow”. The attribution can only go one way once the direction has been decided”

Which I’m not so sure about. To me (2) logically also means “my sibling’s bow”. What do you think about that?

Quote from: K. Pawl
I agree with you. Both (1) and (2) seem fine to me, and I don't see how they could each be interpreted as other than "my sibling's bow."

However, Mako has pointed to an issue that deserves some scrutiny. Let me throw this out for discussion.

Here are the six possible arrangements of the words 'itanä, karyuä, and kelku:

1. kelku 'itanä karyuä
2. kelku karyuä 'itanä
3. 'itanä kelku karyuä
4. karyuä kelku 'itanä
5. 'itanä karyuä kelku
6. karyuä 'itanä kelku

And here are two possible meanings of these phrases:

A. the home of the son's teacher
B. the home of the teacher's son

Here are some questions to consider:

a. Are all six phrases grammatical and acceptable, or are some of them unacceptable?

b. Of the acceptable phrases (which may be all of them), which ones have the A meaning and which have the B meaning?

c. Are any of the acceptable phrases ambiguous--that is, allowing both the A and the B meaning?

d. If there is ambiguity in any of these cases, how much of a problem is that--or should there be a rule that in a potentially ambiguous case, one meaning is to be preferred over the other?

Please throw this out for discussion! I'll be interested in how people feel about these questions.

So there it is. :) Please feel free to comment and discuss the above questions that K. Pawl laid out. I’m giving it some time before I ‘report back’ to him :P And I’m doing this here rather than on Discord just to have a better overview.
Science / Re: Astronomy thread/Kìng a teri tanhìä tìftia
« Last post by Toliman on Today at 05:06:47 am »
Tonight sky was partly cloudy. I tried observe Saturn and Mars through holes between clouds but seeing was not extra good.

hrh...last week I was able observe mars almost every night.
Science / Re: Astronomy thread/Kìng a teri tanhìä tìftia
« Last post by Vawmataw on Yesterday at 08:13:46 pm »
Ma Vamataw, what do you have for a solar viewing setup?
In August, I bought a pair of eclipse glasses as well as a filter for my camera.

I remove the central part of the telescope's cap and I stick carefully the filter in front of it. It's quite DIY, but it gives good results.
Science / Re: Astronomy thread/Kìng a teri tanhìä tìftia
« Last post by Toliman on Yesterday at 03:57:52 pm »
On Saturday, I might try eyepiece projection photography with the solar 'scope. It will be interesting to see how this turns out.
I hope that it will turn out well.
Will you show us images? :)
Science / Re: Astronomy thread/Kìng a teri tanhìä tìftia
« Last post by `Eylan Ayfalulukanä on Yesterday at 03:53:28 pm »
Ma Vamataw, what do you have for a solar viewing setup?

On Saturday, I might try eyepiece projection photography with the solar 'scope. It will be interesting to see how this turns out.

Public astronomy at the Planetarium tonight, for the first time in months. We should have a pleasant evening, but it will be too bright to see much besides the moon and Jupiter.

July will be a busy month for astronomy, including at least one interesting public outreach event (daytime!), an asteroid occultation, and the Golden State Star Party.
Meetings / Re: Freiburg Wintertreffen 2017 Resonanzen und Kommentare
« Last post by Ikxeru on Yesterday at 03:47:11 pm »
@David Coletti....  nun dann würd ich sagen...   2018/19 werden wir uns hoffentlich sehen!!!!!
Beginners / Re: Pivängkxo nìNa'vi Ko! Beginner Na'vi Chat Thread
« Last post by Toliman on Yesterday at 02:13:30 pm »
Irayo ulte kaym lefom ngaru nìteng :)
Beginners / Re: Pivängkxo nìNa'vi Ko! Beginner Na'vi Chat Thread
« Last post by David Colletti on Yesterday at 02:10:25 pm »
Srane lu eltur titxen si nìtxan
slä oe zene kivä set kaym lefpom
ngaru ulte Eywa ngahu ma eylan  :)

Deutsch (German) / Re: Avatarspiel mit der Unreal Engine 4
« Last post by Sey'Syu on Yesterday at 01:22:46 pm »
Update: Ich habe in den letzten Tagen mich daran gesetzt eine Server Version zu erstellen und auch die passende Client Version. Musste einige kleinere Fehler in der Server Version ausmerzen, aber jetzt funktioniert sie. Ich konnte mich erfolgreich Verbinden und untereinander interagieren. Bin da echt Happy darüber. Da dies einer der wichtigsten Punkte war und ist dies Online zu machen. Nun gilt es Actors die in der Welt plaziert sind. zB Türen richtig einzurichten. Dafür sind einige Zusatzschritte erforderlich, imgegensatz zu einer Offline Version. Es ist übrigens ein Dedicated Server den ich hierfür extra aus dem Source Code der Engine kompiliert habe. Wieder eine Hürde weniger. :)
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