Another Earth Needed to Meet Human Demand for Resources

Started by Seze Mune, May 15, 2012, 10:32:51 AM

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Seze Mune

They already have a railway between DC and Baltimore.  I've been on it.  I doubt it's connected to NYC though, but many NY workers live in CT, and I understand there are pretty good railways between them.

Part of the problem is that there are too many people. 

Since we haven't been able to find ways to control this factor consciously (not even in China with their one-child policy), the only thing we can do is rely on nature to take care of it through catastrophic events like tornadoes, hurricanes, tsunamis, etc., or by deaths through epidemics... or wars.  No matter what else technology comes up with, there is still a tipping point in terms of population versus resources at some point.

Unless that is realistically addressed, it would seem all else is moot.

Raiden

Quote from: ExLibrisMortis on May 16, 2012, 12:48:21 AM
Necessity is the mother of invention/innovation. Can't wait til we get to the brink to see what kinds of technologies we'll bring. But for now, the brink is a few decades off, or even a generation away. Until then, let's watch and see.

Yeah, let's watch and see most of the other organisms on Earth sicken and die while we continue to expand at their expense.

Over my dead, maggot-riddled body.

Trouble keeps me running faster

Save the planet from disaster...

Meuiama Tsamsiyu (Toruk Makto)

Quote from: Seze Mune on June 13, 2012, 09:35:13 PM
They already have a railway between DC and Baltimore.  I've been on it.  I doubt it's connected to NYC though, but many NY workers live in CT, and I understand there are pretty good railways between them.

Part of the problem is that there are too many people. 

Since we haven't been able to find ways to control this factor consciously (not even in China with their one-child policy), the only thing we can do is rely on nature to take care of it through catastrophic events like tornadoes, hurricanes, tsunamis, etc., or by deaths through epidemics... or wars.  No matter what else technology comes up with, there is still a tipping point in terms of population versus resources at some point.

Unless that is realistically addressed, it would seem all else is moot.

No, I meant the high speed rail. Like they have in Japan, China and France. I know there is a massive railway corridor through the region from DC to Boston.

I completely agree with you on the natural factor. It is sad but true, we need something like that to tilt things back into balance.

Personally I think a good human number for this planet is about 4 billion.



"He who destroys a good book kills reason itself." -John Milton

"Mathematics is the gate and key to the sciences." -Roger Bacon

"There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

Human No More

Overpopulation is the problem... If people don't get their numbers down to maybe 2 billion or so, disasters and wars will do it for them. At such a level, it's perfect possible to have a normal, comfortable, enjoyable life, without impacting the rest of the world.
"I can barely remember my old life. I don't know who I am any more."

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Meuiama Tsamsiyu (Toruk Makto)

HNM, I am thinking more around 4 billion, but at least I know someone else feels the same as I do.



"He who destroys a good book kills reason itself." -John Milton

"Mathematics is the gate and key to the sciences." -Roger Bacon

"There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

Seze Mune

Quote from: Human No More on June 16, 2012, 08:08:19 PM
Overpopulation is the problem... If people don't get their numbers down to maybe 2 billion or so, disasters and wars will do it for them. At such a level, it's perfect possible to have a normal, comfortable, enjoyable life, without impacting the rest of the world.

Fì'u!

Tsmuktengan

This is very difficult to apply especially in very poor countries, where people are having like 10 kids, as much as they can, even if they are in really overpopulated areas. Nigeria is a good example of this issue, you can find the same situation elsewhere. Other emerging states also use demography as a political weight tool.

So there is not really a way of finding a better solution than trying to anticipate future issues about this.


Meuiama Tsamsiyu (Toruk Makto)

Quote from: Tsmuktengan on June 16, 2012, 10:06:57 PM
This is very difficult to apply especially in very poor countries, where people are having like 10 kids, as much as they can, even if they are in really overpopulated areas. Nigeria is a good example of this issue, you can find the same situation elsewhere. Other emerging states also use demography as a political weight tool.

So there is not really a way of finding a better solution than trying to anticipate future issues about this.

This is a direct result of America FEEDING these countries. We stop supplying food and they will thin out.

A very heated topic with me that I don't think is a good thing for me to get involved with right now.



"He who destroys a good book kills reason itself." -John Milton

"Mathematics is the gate and key to the sciences." -Roger Bacon

"There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

ExLibrisMortis

#28
Quote from: Human No More on June 16, 2012, 08:08:19 PM
Overpopulation is the problem... If people don't get their numbers down to maybe 2 billion or so, disasters and wars will do it for them. At such a level, it's perfect possible to have a normal, comfortable, enjoyable life, without impacting the rest of the world.

History tells us, in a multiplicity of examples, that man has never successfully tried to control its own population. Any attempts at doing so have brought to past greatly negative consequences. Wars and disasters are there for many reason, and indirect population control is one of those reason.

This is just one of those things that if we as humans try to manipulate and play puppeteer with, the unintended consequences will be so great and dire, I doubt there would be any recovery. Believing that we can make over-reaching policies and laws to change and/or affect human behavior is a philosophy that simply will not work. Human beings need to be taught correct principles and be left to govern themselves, and every time this is shown to be done in history, it truly does happen.

Nevertheless... I am straying away.


Meuiama Tsamsiyu (Toruk Makto)

Quote from: ExLibrisMortis on June 17, 2012, 06:40:31 PM
Quote from: Human No More on June 16, 2012, 08:08:19 PM
Overpopulation is the problem... If people don't get their numbers down to maybe 2 billion or so, disasters and wars will do it for them. At such a level, it's perfect possible to have a normal, comfortable, enjoyable life, without impacting the rest of the world.

History tells us, in a multiplicity of examples, that man has never tried to control its own population. Any attempts at doing so have brought to past greatly negative consequences. Wars and disasters are there for many reason, and indirect population control is one of those reason.

This is just one of those things that if we as humans try to manipulate and play puppeteer with, the unintended consequences will be so great and dire, I doubt there would be any recovery. Believing that we can make over-reaching policies and laws to change and/or affect human behavior is a philosophy that simply will not work. Human beings need to be taught correct principles and be left to govern themselves, and every time this is shown to be done in history, it truly does happen.

Nevertheless... I am straying away.



No, I think you are right on topic here.

I am more of a 'tough love' kinda person in this respect.

(USA) Example: People on Welfare are currently b**** about having to take a piss test in order to get Welfare checks. Oddly pretty much ANY job you get from beginning management out of college to pumping gas at your local refilling station requires this, and yet they wanna say it is unconstitutional to piss test them? I wanna take it one step further. If one remains on Welfare without ANY attempt to find work in a two year period, they are 'fixed'. No more reproducing.

Same with criminals. Certain crimes like gang activity should be dealt with mortally. There are too many people on this planet right now to even tolerate that kind of BS.

Nations shipping food to ANY nation that is unable to feed itself should cease. Think back to last summer when all those people left Mogadishu. How many tens, maybe hundreds of thousands died in the sand. They are hundreds of thousands of people in a small area of desert capable of maybe sustaining less than one percent of the population that exists there now.

I am not saying weed out the week. I AM saying to put things back in the balance.

Transporting natural resources from one country to another, with the exception of some civilized island nations like Japan and the continent of Australia, should cease. India does not need Australia's coal, and yet Australia just struck a deal with a new mine to ship it all to India. Same goes for China. They are a resource poor country and therefore inept in their ability to sustain what they are currently doing. I think we are now at the end of a seven year process where China put online one coal fire power plant ever week for that period. That is well over seven-hundred pollution gushing power facilities.

I know I've taken a hard line stance but unless things like this are implemented, this world will be lost and lost fast.



"He who destroys a good book kills reason itself." -John Milton

"Mathematics is the gate and key to the sciences." -Roger Bacon

"There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

Seze Mune

I agree with ExLib.  Wars and diseases and other natural catastrophes will cull mankind.  It will not be pretty. So long as mankind views itself as outside of nature and believes it is given dominion over it, it will never accept the responsibility for the balance of life.  That will have to come from seemingly exterior forces.

Tsmuktengan

Quote from: Seze Mune on June 17, 2012, 11:30:55 PM
I agree with ExLib.  Wars and diseases and other natural catastrophes will cull mankind.  It will not be pretty. So long as mankind views itself as outside of nature and believes it is given dominion over it, it will never accept the responsibility for the balance of life.  That will have to come from seemingly exterior forces.

Mankind is already culled when I see people killing themselves for political issues such as in Côte d'Ivoire (Ivory Coast) in 2010-2011, or to take European states, Yougoslavia in 1991. So I have got no illusions about this. I look forward to prevent this sort of thing, knowing it will continue to happen. What can be changed is the frequency and intensity of those conflicts and terrible images.

But you are right, and this is where it comes to countries to apply a much more effective resource management policy. Pollution and durability stuff have the same frontiers than international trading flux (which in other words, does not really have frontiers). But this does not mean traditional trading should stop though. There are flux you will hardly stop : for example, nuclear matters have to be mined generally in African countries, then manufactured and delivered to facilities around the world. You also have manufactured products that have to be delivered around the world. So you also need more durable engines there.

There isn't a unique solution. However, there is one way that should be adopted, and it is called eco-responsibility. The first issues linked to primary resources might be water supply in the middle-east, according to scientists and journalists.