More info on the Arctic Methane problem

[Niri Te]

 I just picked this up from BBC folks.
Niri Te


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-17400804

[Tsanten Eywa 'eveng]

I've heard this problem

If the Arctic starts to melt more, we will have serious problems

But building cloud-whitening ships will be difficult

I don't know if we will make it

And here I live, we will have serious problems. We will probably have one of the countries with most effect of the climate change in the world

[Niri Te]

I've heard this problem

If the Arctic starts to melt more, we will have serious problems

But building cloud-whitening ships will be difficult

I don't know if we will make it

And here I live, we will have serious problems. We will probably have one of the countries with most effect of the climate change in the world

The cloud whitening ships MIGHT make the problem worse if the droplet size is not closely controlled, ma
tsanten.
Here ia a link to that report.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12983795

Niri Te

[Tsanten Eywa 'eveng]

I've heard this problem

If the Arctic starts to melt more, we will have serious problems

But building cloud-whitening ships will be difficult

I don't know if we will make it

And here I live, we will have serious problems. We will probably have one of the countries with most effect of the climate change in the world

The cloud whitening ships MIGHT make the problem worse if the droplet size is not closely controlled, ma
tsanten.
Here ia a link to that report.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12983795

Niri Te

We have sometimes climate problems here in Norway. In November 2011 a powerful hurricane came here and started almost flooding the city I live in with over 40000. In December 2011 came 2 not so very powerful extreme weathers

[Niri Te]

  Yet there are STILL groups of people in this Country who see ANY legislation causing them to change what the companies that they own, or hold stock in, messing with their profit margins, and therefore a manufactured hoax by the "Eco-crazies".
  These are the ones, along with their Congressional puppets, that only want more "studies" to verify the Validity of the problem". Would they even consider all of Long Island, and most of Manhatten, New York under water "sufficient proof"?  By THEN it will be too late.
Brie

[Tsanten Eywa 'eveng]

  Yet there are STILL groups of people in this Country who see ANY legislation causing them to change what the companies that they own, or hold stock in, messing with their profit margins, and therefore a manufactured hoax by the "Eco-crazies".
  These are the ones, along with their Congressional puppets, that only want more "studies" to verify the Validity of the problem". Would they even consider all of Long Island, and most of Manhatten, New York under water "sufficient proof"?  By THEN it will be too late.
Brie

I've heard that some scientists saying that it will happen opposite, that the Gulf Stream will stop circulate and will bring global cooling and a new ice age will come

[Human No More]

It's not as difficult as you might think - the requisites already exist; it's a question of scale. There are all sorts of such projects, up to and including easy access to space.

[Tsanten Eywa 'eveng]

It's not as difficult as you might think - the requisites already exist; it's a question of scale. There are all sorts of such projects, up to and including easy access to space.

Some times I thinking:


Maybe there are already too late to change this planet's fate?
Maybe it's just stand here on Earth, and watch what it is going into?


But other times I thinking it is time to change this planet, to make it more comfortable for life, and make it how it was before, no global warming, no war

So that we can be a peacefull race

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

Methane?? Sounds like the anti-meat people are at it again. These folks claim much of the methane in the atmosphere comes from cattle. They also conveniently forget the land was overrun by runimants (which cattle are) before man came on the scene.

Methane should also be easy to extract from the air using simple technology. It can also be a byproduct of air liquification, which is done for other purposes.

[Human No More]

Nobody mentioned that until now; even they have realised their logic is a complete failure.

[Niri Te]

No ma metsmukan, this methane has been locked up in the arctic ice for a long while, and as the ice melts, the methane is released into the atmosphere. While the Methane is not sa dangerous a greenhouse gas for as long a time as CO2 is, in the short term, per unit volume it is FAR more destructive.
Niri Te

[Seze Mune]

Ma Niri Te,  I believe the methane is sequestered in the soil.  I may have read it wrong, but I thought they were worried that the warming ocean would melt the permafrost within the seabed, which would allow the release of methane which is sequestered there.

You might want to check out this article.  At least we look like we're trying to do something about the methane, even if it's not the stuff that's already under the seabed:  (note: SA is down for maintenance as I post, but should be up again shortly)

U.S. joins coalition to reduce methane and soot

[Raiden]

Methane?? Sounds like the anti-meat people are at it again. These folks claim much of the methane in the atmosphere comes from cattle. They also conveniently forget the land was overrun by runimants (which cattle are) before man came on the scene.

Methane should also be easy to extract from the air using simple technology. It can also be a byproduct of air liquification, which is done for other purposes.

Actually, the industrial farming of cows does produce a lot of greenhouse gases. On top of that, it messes with water quality in nearby streams, causing loss of biodiversity and fish kills. Smaller operations selling meat locally that also work to produce meat without damaging the surrounding ecosystems tend not to cause as many problems, as they do not produce as much CO₂ or use as much fossil fuel.

Extremist vegans might be using it to further their cause, but industrial farming methods do actually cause problems as far as greenhouse gases go.

As for extraction, it's not that simple. Methane molecules are very, very small and light, so capturing them from the air would be harder than just cutting down on emissions so that the ice can build up again over the methane pockets.

[Tsanten Eywa 'eveng]

I would like to give a theory about this methane problem, and what is the worst-case scenario.

There is methane on Saturn's moon Titan, and the methane there are liquid and are located in huge lakes. What i think happened on Titan, is that it erupted methane from beneath Titan's surface, maybe thousands of years ago, or maybe some million years ago, and it formed tubes or you can call plumes or fountains, whatever you like. Well, Earth's future is in deep trouble. If we don't stop this, Earth will look like Titan in the end. I don't think the methane has been liquid on Titan forever. And what keeping the methane liquid is because the heat that is coming from beneath the surface of Titan, so it is there the methane originated from on Titan.


So, what i mean is that this is just the beginning. Earth will be terraformed into Titan. It will look like Titan in the end, if we don't stop this methane problem. It will destroy the environment, and it will be spread all around the world. In the air, and even in the vast oceans of the planet Earth.

[Tìtstewan]

First, the earth have not so much methane like Titan...
Secound, if every methane (from the permafrost up to the methanehydrate in the deep ocean) were in the atmosphere, we would terraformed the earth to a very hot place, but not like Venus.
Also methane isn't really stable in the atmosphere, it have a lifetime of 12 years.

[Tsanten Eywa 'eveng]

First, the earth have not so much methane like Titan...
Secound, I every methane (from the permafrost up to the methanehydrate in the deep ocean) were in the atmosphere, we would terraformed to a very hot place, but not like Venus.
Also methane isn't really stable in the atmosphere, it have a lifetime of 12 years.

Yeah, but a lifetime of 12 years is bad. Just think of what is happening in those 12 years. 12 years is a long time. But there is not only methane in the Arctic, there are also methane in Siberia. There are actually leaking a lot of methane there, and it is coming out from cracks. Saw on the tv, i think it was on Discovery Channel or Science Channel, where they tried to drop a match into one of those cracks, and it erupted an intense fire from it.

Check this out, here's a video of it.
Amazing video of exploding under-ice methane gas in Siberia

[Tìtstewan]

With the arctic I mean also siberia. Well and also antarctica...
I think, there is no reason to be afraid of "too much" methane in the atmosphere, in the meaning as too much that it blow up everything. Only you would have a tropical clima in Norway, and I would have a clime like a desert here in south Germany...

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

Again, I will take the skeptics position. We are beginning to see some good evidence that these climate effects are levelling off. The minimum ice pack this year was the largest it has been in some time. Whether or not this is a statistical fluke remains to be seen.

The position about corporate America (and other countries) trying to make as much money as quickly as they can has been mentioned. There is also a lot of money to be made off of global warming as well. Plus the control freak 'greens' like to go around and tell everyone how to live their lives. They thrive off of oppression.

The best thing a person can do is do what they can to conserve. A bunch of little adjustments done by most folks will have a much bigger effect than drastic adjustments that few can comfortably do. Look at reports from both sides with a skeptics eye: What do the people presenting the report have to gain on its predictions. Above all though, don't live in fear of anything but oppression!

[Niri Te]

With the arctic I mean also siberia. Well and also antarctica...
I think, there is no reason to be afraid of "too much" methane in the atmosphere, in the meaning as too much that it blow up everything. Only you would have a tropical clima in Norway, and I would have a clime like a desert here in south Germany...

I happen to LIKE the climate in South Germany remaining just the way that it was when I used to live in Bad Tolz, and I will bet that the people in Bad Tolz would like it to stay that way too, ma tsmukan.

[archaic]

The best thing a person can do is do what they can to conserve. A bunch of little adjustments done by most folks will have a much bigger effect than drastic adjustments that few can comfortably do.

Except that the rise of China and India will more than offset any little adjustments made in the rest of the developed world.

Look at reports from both sides with a skeptics eye: What do the people presenting the report have to gain on its predictions.

The key question is 'cui bono', Latin for who benefits?
Is it the protester lying in the mud trying to halt the dozzers? Or is it the mega rich corporations for whom a project will earn big money? Or is it the indigenous villagers who have lost their land, their homes, their way of life that's sustained them for countless generations and who have little choice but to live in horrific conditions in squalid shanty towns on the edge of a city in the vain hope of getting work they are not qualified for, and end up with HIV, cholera, plague and/or god knows what else?
Or native peoples driven, mostly on foot for six months across one thousand miles of ruff terrain with only the clothes on their back, no accommodation, no shelter, no blankets, woefully inadequate food and water supplies, zero medical provision, with a death toll on route somewhere between one quarter and three eighths. To sites with insufficient food, inadequate shelter, zero medical provision, to be allotted tracts of empty plains land they had no survival skills for, little to no shelter from sun or cold of night, little and often contaminated water, and as final gift, smallpox, malaria, measles, cholera, whooping cough and influenza.

So I ask you ..... Cui bono, who benefits?

Above all though, don't live in fear of anything but oppression!

Sadly, the word naïve is one that springs all too quickly to mind.