Science... what for?

[Elektrolurch]

Well... living in a world where you can still find white regions on usual maps is awesome... but not real in this world. =/ So I think it's interesting to live somewhere where you can still explore, invent or create new stuff... And what is our science today? Extremely rich whatever-scientists working for super-rich companies.... and I'm one of the guys who don't need that ...

[Nyx]

There is still so much left to explore. With every answer we get, we discover another bunch of questions that haven't been asked before. There's also a lot of room for imagination, in fact, without imagination it'd be hard to think of wild theories and how to test them.

Extremely rich whatever-scientists working for super-rich companies....

Now that is more of a political issue. No one wants to fund scientists unless there's a sure profit in that. Big companies do that when they can get a product out of it and be the only company that has this product. And governments rarely realize what's worth funding. (I'm not entirely happy with that either, to be honest, but what can you do?) But there are many scientists who work for universities and such only to explore and find new things, and they rarely get that much pay because it takes a lot of work to find things that can be sold, but they do discover a lot of other things along the way.

As for the maps, yeah, we've covered that, but seeing something on a map and actually being there and experiencing the place with all your senses are very different things. You can still explore and if you want to get slightly lost and find your way at random, go ahead and throw the map away. Just because it's been done before doesn't mean it isn't fun any more.

Sorry if that was a bit ranty...

[Elektrolurch]

Nonono, it was good...


I mean.. exploring a new continent might be exciting, because you might go there... electric light is interesting, because you might use it within time... but .. Anti-matter? Knowing what quarks are and what they consist of?..

[kewnya txamew'itan]

I mean.. exploring a new continent might be exciting, because you might go there... electric light is interesting, because you might use it within time... but .. Anti-matter? Knowing what quarks are and what they consist of?..

Do you think the electric light was invented as soon as the theoretical groundwork describing electricity was discovered? It took a long time and a lot of effort to lay down a fairly detailed model of electrodynamics before the electric lightbulb was invented as a viable product, when electrodynamics were first being explored it seemed to be limited to 'useless' things like making compasses point in the wrong direction.

All discoveries go through a long process that starts with a discovery with no obvious use which is then built upon by other people until a workable product is produced, this process is something along the lines of:

pure mathematician comes up with theorem -> applied mathematicians apply this to solve certain types of problems -> theoretical physicist comes up with theory using the application of the theorem -> experimental physicists test theory -> other physicists (both applied and theoretical) explore theory looking for interesting phenomena -> applied physicists look for uses of such phenomena -> engineers build a product based on this phenomenon.

Other than the last two stages there none of it has an aim in mind and, at first, seems pointless, but that is because all science (including maths) is an investment in the future based on the belief that, in the future such knowledge will enable new products to be invented or existing products to be improved (without general relativity sat navs wouldn't work).

As for your specific examples, antimatter has several obvious uses that spring to mind mainly to do with power generation (be that for electricity or propulsion) where it would be useful because it can be magnetically contained and reacts very efficiently and has a very high specific impulse (the amount of thrust one unit of mass of fuel gives).

With quarks, they're very important in beta decay (which is used to power some space-probes) and the way the bond (by the strong force) is very important to the future of fusion power.

If people had stopped trying to better understand the universe just because there was no obvious application then the computer you're using now would certainly not have ever been invented as would many other everyday devices.

[Sіr. Ηaxalot]

The only ones to blame is our ancestors, for having the same opinion as you have

[Vawm tsamsiyu]

Well... living in a world where you can still find white regions on usual maps is awesome... but not real in this world. =/ So I think it's interesting to live somewhere where you can still explore, invent or create new stuff... And what is our science today? Extremely rich whatever-scientists working for super-rich companies.... and I'm one of the guys who don't need that ...

That's were I'd want go the tony stark route, I'd rather learn to run a large buisness well so I could take anything I created and make money from it myself and use it to fund w/e idea I come up with without begging some company for Funding. Then I could focus on creating stuff and exploring the universe and if were lucky find the na'vi 

[kewnya txamew'itan]

Well... living in a world where you can still find white regions on usual maps is awesome... but not real in this world. =/ So I think it's interesting to live somewhere where you can still explore, invent or create new stuff... And what is our science today? Extremely rich whatever-scientists working for super-rich companies.... and I'm one of the guys who don't need that ...

That's were I'd want go the tony stark route, I'd rather learn to run a large buisness well so I could take anything I created and make money from it myself and use it to fund w/e idea I come up with without begging some company for Funding. Then I could focus on creating stuff and exploring the universe and if were lucky find the na'vi 

Except that without the scientists working at universities and other pure research institutes you wouldn't be able to create the cool things because there'd be no way for you to know that they were possible or how to go about doing it.

Corporate-funded research is a necessary evil, yes it can produce large biases, but at the same time, without all that money, medical science wouldn't have progressed this far this quickly. Maybe a better solution would be to force  companies to fund indirectly, just giving their money to a big research pot (with a few restrictions on it for example, the scientists funded by it must be looking for a cure for pneumonia or something) without the companies knowing exactly who they're funding thus preventing bias from arising. Sadly though I am sure that the companies involved would just say that it wouldn't be worth investing and would stop.

[kewnya txamew'itan]

Companies would never, ever put all their money into a fund shared with competitors. Sure, the combined efforts might produce a cure for cancer sooner, but companies loose out on the single most valuable asset resulting from research: the patent.

If it was the only option then they probably would but, seeing as that would require all countries to pass the law, I've a feeling it would be unlikely. You could also find some way of splitting the royalties on using it by the amount donated as an incentive (although they'd still rather fund the research directly of course).

[Kekerusey]

Well... living in a world where you can still find white regions on usual maps is awesome... but not real in this world. =/ So I think it's interesting to live somewhere where you can still explore, invent or create new stuff... And what is our science today? Extremely rich whatever-scientists working for super-rich companies.... and I'm one of the guys who don't need that ...

Although I would agree it's not right that science is largely sponsored by corporates it is not true to say that that is what science is for ... there's also lots of "blue-sky" research carried out (though not enough IMO) and quarks are the kind of thing that are carried out in that arena!

You should be thankful for what science has provided (and continues to provide) ... hell you wouldn't even have "Avatar" without it and there's a lot more good stuff that science has "enabled"  

Keke

[Human No More]

Knowledge is a goal in its own right, but understanding more about the world lets us appreciate it and improve our lives. Yes, knowledge can be abused, but it can also be used for great accomplishments and to make a difference 

[Kekerusey]

Knowledge is a goal in its own right, but understanding more about the world lets us appreciate it and improve our lives. Yes, knowledge can be abused, but it can also be used for great accomplishments and to make a difference 

Indeed ... "If you want to do evil, science provides the most powerful weapons to do evil; but equally, if you want to do good, science puts into your hands the most powerful tools to do so." Dawkins.

Keke

[ToktorGrace]

I for one am thankful for science - which allows me to have clean water, easily cooked food (microwave!), the ability to instantly connect with like-minded people and to control whether or not (and when) I have teh babies. XD I do think we, as a species, are going beyond what we know what to do with most of our tech toys, but I wouldn't trade it for no science at all.

Then again, I'm a science major and want to go into medicine.. so I have my own point of view on this matter.

Fortunately there are still so many mysteries and unmapped regions of space that we have literally infinite things left to discover Its just less obvious than it used to be.

[Kekerusey]

Fortunately there are still so many mysteries and unmapped regions of space that we have literally infinite things left to discover Its just less obvious than it used to be.

Amen brother (sister?) ... the natural world (IMO) is so much more wonderful than the world of the claimed supernatural!

Keke

[Tsuksìm atsawl (KaPTan)]

Well... living in a world where you can still find white regions on usual maps is awesome... but not real in this world. =/ So I think it's interesting to live somewhere where you can still explore, invent or create new stuff... And what is our science today? Extremely rich whatever-scientists working for super-rich companies.... and I'm one of the guys who don't need that ...

hmmm, white regions of the map... want to try the ocean perhaps???

for the most part, i agree with the people above me on most of thier points.  just for kicks, this is a great book to read.  its called Physics of the Impossible. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0385520697/michkakutheop-20

[Nyx]

for the most part, i agree with the people above me on most of thier points.  just for kicks, this is a great book to read.  its called Physics of the Impossible. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0385520697/michkakutheop-20

The cover of that book made me smile, I'd buy it just for that, haha. But I did read the description and that made it sound even more awesome. Thanks, dude