Author Topic: 09 July :: The Panel and Bilingual Q&A  (Read 8861 times)

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Offline Prrton

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Re: 09 July :: The Panel and Bilingual Q&A
« Reply #40 on: June 18, 2011, 02:04:43 am »
Amongst the nitpicking questions that I usually like to ask, here's a couple I found:
Pelun ke ngalmop li aylì'upam alahe leNa'via lì'fyayä?
Txo ngivop ngal faylì'upamit, sìketengpe livu?



Also, havn't you been wondering about intonations and such variations?

Ma Tirea,

I think you should come up with a question or two and "send them" via an envoy who can ask them on your behalf. Maybe Tsm. ’Oma T. would do it for you?


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Re: 09 July :: The Panel and Bilingual Q&A
« Reply #41 on: June 18, 2011, 04:35:19 am »
After carefully looking that question over, I came to the conclusion that {b}`uo[/b] is indeed a better choice than pumo. With that change in place, it makes some sense to use the <iv> infix in lam but not in sla. livam feels appropriate not only because the word lam itself has a 'subjunctive' feel to it, but also because <iv> fits in context. {b]sla[/b] on the other hand, is being used in a very direct, straightforward manner. No <iv> is really needed there. So we now have:

   Krr a horenit famä Lì'fyayä leNa'vi txarmula ngal, pefnetìngäzìk lu teri fwa fmi ngivop nìfya’o a slu lor tengkrr a livam na 'uo akewong kop.

I would very much like to hear a recording of you speaking it. This would especially help in getting the stresses right, as well as hearing how a long sentence like this should 'flow'.

(I understand how busy you have been. This has been the busiest spring I can remember in many years, if ever!)

Tirea, I suspect that `Oma Tirea (or most anyone else here for that matter) would be honored to present a question on your behalf!

I am really surprised that more people aren't submitting questions here for review. Maybe that will change, now that there is some activity in this thread.

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Offline Txonä Unil Stä'nìyu Rolyusì

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Re: 09 July :: The Panel and Bilingual Q&A
« Reply #42 on: June 18, 2011, 06:00:02 pm »
Txona, I generally like that. But there are a couple issues here.

The first I think is a spelling error. The word sekyivi I cannot find in any way, shape or form. I think you might have really meant seykivi, which does make sense in context- 'cause to want to make/do'. But this, then creates a second problem pam seykivi, while nice in meaning, isn't a legal word.

So, if pam seykivi cannot be used, how about ...fte lì'fyati kem seykivi na pum akewong slä lor tengkrr

With these changes, the need for na pum goes away, but a pam is needed somewhere. So the net result is:

Krr a Lì'fyati leNa'vi ngarmop ngal, tìngäzìkìri hìtxampe lu ngaru fte lì'fyati kem seykivi pam akewong slä lor tengkrr

Yeah, that was a spelling error, my bad. And to my amazement you're right, "pam si" is not legal. I could have sworn it was. My bad......again >.<

-Txonä Rolyu
« Last Edit: June 18, 2011, 08:41:46 pm by Txonä Te Unil Stä'nìyu Rolyusì »




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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: 09 July :: The Panel and Bilingual Q&A
« Reply #43 on: June 18, 2011, 08:54:20 pm »
I'm not sure what to ask that wouldn't be a (barrage of) question(s) about grammar and meaning clarifications of certain words.

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Offline 'Oma Tirea

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Re: 09 July :: The Panel and Bilingual Q&A
« Reply #44 on: June 18, 2011, 10:52:01 pm »
What do you mean by "intonation"?

Part of the canonical story is K. Pawl's having asked Cameron in the very beginning if he liked a model that involved tone (à la Mandarin) and Cameron rejected it. that's why Na’vi has simple stressed/accented syllables (as opposed to formalized Sinitic-style tones or a pitch system like Japanese).

I know Na'vi isn't a tonal language, and that Cameron didn't want that.  However each non-tonal language, be it (N.K.) a Germanic, Hindu, Slavic or Romance language, each have a different intonation.  What I'm curious about here, is how the intonation patterns are laid out such that they don't sound excessively 'Ìnglìsì, as has apparently been the trend.  Srake tslam nga set?

[img]http://swokaikran.skxawng.lu/sigbar/nwotd.php?p=2b[/img]

ÌTXTSTXRR!!

Srake serar le'Ìnglìsìa lì'fyayä aylì'ut?  Nari si älofoniru rutxe!!

Offline 'Oma Tirea

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Re: 09 July :: The Panel and Bilingual Q&A
« Reply #45 on: June 18, 2011, 10:53:37 pm »
I don't think he will answer these. I'm happy to check with him, but this kind of thing may not make much sense to the general audience and he doesn't like being put on the spot about anything that might have something to do with the future of the franchise. Such discussion regarding another dialect might imply something that would start rumors about potential story lines in the future films. And if those rumors hit some kind of nerve and were attributed to something he said in a public venue like this, then... I can only imagine things that are politically very bad only.

Noted.  I didn't think anything I was going to ask would be worth it for this...

[img]http://swokaikran.skxawng.lu/sigbar/nwotd.php?p=2b[/img]

ÌTXTSTXRR!!

Srake serar le'Ìnglìsìa lì'fyayä aylì'ut?  Nari si älofoniru rutxe!!

Offline Prrton

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Re: 09 July :: The Panel and Bilingual Q&A
« Reply #46 on: June 18, 2011, 11:50:05 pm »
What do you mean by "intonation"?

Part of the canonical story is K. Pawl's having asked Cameron in the very beginning if he liked a model that involved tone (à la Mandarin) and Cameron rejected it. that's why Na’vi has simple stressed/accented syllables (as opposed to formalized Sinitic-style tones or a pitch system like Japanese).

I know Na'vi isn't a tonal language, and that Cameron didn't want that.  However each non-tonal language, be it (N.K.) a Germanic, Hindu, Slavic or Romance language, each have a different intonation.  What I'm curious about here, is how the intonation patterns are laid out such that they don't sound excessively 'Ìnglìsì, as has apparently been the trend.  Srake tslam nga set?


It sounds like you're referring to prosody, then. I would just use lì’fyayä kato to describe that. It's very close.




Offline Prrton

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Re: 09 July :: The Panel and Bilingual Q&A
« Reply #47 on: June 20, 2011, 09:53:46 am »

NOTE: Schedule has changed. Panel starting at 2:00 (not 1:00 as previously reported)

See the first post for this topic.

Also, we NEED more question-askers in Na’vi. See the current confirmed list at the end of the first post.

If you're planning something, but haven't let me know, please do SOON and I'll add it to that list.

If we're not going to have enough ASKERS, then they may shorten the Q&A (thereby shortening the whole panel).  :'(


Offline Txur’Itan

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Re: 09 July :: The Panel and Bilingual Q&A
« Reply #48 on: June 20, 2011, 01:28:32 pm »

NOTE: Schedule has changed. Panel starting at 2:00 (not 1:00 as previously reported)

See the first post for this topic.

Also, we NEED more question-askers in Na’vi. See the current confirmed list at the end of the first post.

If you're planning something, but haven't let me know, please do SOON and I'll add it to that list.

If we're not going to have enough ASKERS, then they may shorten the Q&A (thereby shortening the whole panel).  :'(



Ma Karyu Pawl, peu alu pxan ngaru tatsìng a tusìnga tìkangkem lelì’fya fpi lì’fyati sngeykatsop?

Prrton versions:

Nga ätxäle si tsnì tivel peut nì’eyng fte txivula lahea lì’fyati amip?

Pefnenaer sunu ngaru frato ulte tsunslu fwa fìkaym prrte’ livu ngar fwa ayoeohu käteng sì näk nì’it srak?
« Last Edit: June 22, 2011, 10:24:32 pm by Txur’Itan »
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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: 09 July :: The Panel and Bilingual Q&A
« Reply #49 on: June 20, 2011, 07:50:42 pm »

NOTE: Schedule has changed. Panel starting at 2:00 (not 1:00 as previously reported)

See the first post for this topic.

Also, we NEED more question-askers in Na’vi. See the current confirmed list at the end of the first post.

If you're planning something, but haven't let me know, please do SOON and I'll add it to that list.

If we're not going to have enough ASKERS, then they may shorten the Q&A (thereby shortening the whole panel).  :'(



Ma Karyu Pawl, peu alu pxan ngaru tatsìng a tusìnga tìkangkem lelì’fya fpi lì’fyati sngeykatsop?

I take it we do NOT translate the Na'vi questions we post and leave that to the translating individuals? (or DO we and they just read off the translation?)

(lol because I'm having a hard time translating the above sentence)

OH which reminds me, who looks at these to make sure they make sense grammatically before asking them?

//

Ma Pawl Lì'fyari leNa'vi tì'efumì ngeyä prrte' lu frato a hapxì tìngusopä lu hapxìpe?
« Last Edit: June 20, 2011, 07:52:26 pm by Tirea Aean »

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Offline Txonä Unil Stä'nìyu Rolyusì

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Re: 09 July :: The Panel and Bilingual Q&A
« Reply #50 on: June 20, 2011, 07:54:40 pm »
I correct where I can, but mostly Prrton looks at them. I too am having trouble translating Txur'Itan's sentence and the one you posted. Although, Prrton is away on business now and I'm....well not the best....so we could use help from one of LN's Na'vi experts...;)

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Re: 09 July :: The Panel and Bilingual Q&A
« Reply #51 on: June 20, 2011, 08:10:41 pm »
mine used leftbranching attribution, which might have been what threw you off.

here it is again with some informal, intuitive(hopefully) grouping and breakdown:

Ma Pawl( Lì'fya-ri le-Na'vi( tì-'efu-mì ng-eyä( {prrte' lu frato }a hapxì tì-ng<us>op-ä lu hapxì-pe?)))
« Last Edit: June 20, 2011, 08:16:18 pm by Tirea Aean »

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Re: 09 July :: The Panel and Bilingual Q&A
« Reply #52 on: June 20, 2011, 08:45:33 pm »
mine used leftbranching attribution, which might have been what threw you off.

here it is again with some informal, intuitive(hopefully) grouping and breakdown:

Ma Pawl( Lì'fya-ri le-Na'vi( tì-'efu-mì ng-eyä( {prrte' lu frato }a hapxì tì-ng<us>op-ä lu hapxì-pe?)))

Ohhhhh! ngeyä kemit tsatsenge tse'a oel. Sran it was the left-branching attribution that threw me.

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Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: 09 July :: The Panel and Bilingual Q&A
« Reply #53 on: June 20, 2011, 09:03:48 pm »
I can at least break down and understand ma Tirea's question. I can only make vague heads-or-tails out of Txur`itan's question. To describe some of the word-forms there as 'interesting' is an understatement!

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Re: 09 July :: The Panel and Bilingual Q&A
« Reply #54 on: June 20, 2011, 10:32:08 pm »

Ma Karyu Pawl, peu alu pxan ngaru tatsìng a tusìnga tìkangkem lelì’fya fpi lì’fyati sngeykatsop?

What aspect of the language creation process is worthwhile to you ? ? ? ? ? ?  :-\


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Re: 09 July :: The Panel and Bilingual Q&A
« Reply #55 on: June 20, 2011, 10:39:21 pm »

Ma Karyu Pawl, peu alu pxan ngaru tatsìng a tusìnga tìkangkem lelì’fya fpi lì’fyati sngeykatsop?

What aspect of the language creation process is worthwhile to you ? ? ? ? ? ?  :-\


I am needing missing words, so I experimented to test if meaning could be derived.

Experiment = failed. =(

Check PM please Prrton so I don't further derail your thread.  I'll edit my other post when I have a better approach.
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Offline Prrton

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Re: 09 July :: The Panel and Bilingual Q&A
« Reply #56 on: June 20, 2011, 10:43:39 pm »

Ma Karyu Pawl, peu alu pxan ngaru tatsìng a tusìnga tìkangkem lelì’fya fpi lì’fyati sngeykatsop?

What aspect of the language creation process is worthwhile to you ? ? ? ? ? ?  :-\


I am needing missing words, so I experimented to test if meaning could be derived.

Experiment = failed. =(

Check PM please Prrton so I don't further derail your thread.  I'll edit my other post when I have a better approach.

Ngaytxoa!! I just saw the PM (too late).  :'(

Post that here and see if these smart folks get the gist.  ;D


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Re: 09 July :: The Panel and Bilingual Q&A
« Reply #57 on: June 20, 2011, 10:49:20 pm »

Ma Karyu Pawl, peu alu pxan ngaru tatsìng a tusìnga tìkangkem lelì’fya fpi lì’fyati sngeykatsop?

What aspect of the language creation process is worthwhile to you ? ? ? ? ? ?  :-\


I am needing missing words, so I experimented to test if meaning could be derived.

Experiment = failed. =(

Check PM please Prrton so I don't further derail your thread.  I'll edit my other post when I have a better approach.

Ngaytxoa!! I just saw the PM (too late).  :'(

Post that here and see if these smart folks get the gist.  ;D



Changed my question above based on your version. =)

http://forum.learnnavi.org/seattle-meetup/09-july-the-panel-and-bilingual-qa/msg465277/#msg465277

This is kind of fun. =P
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Re: 09 July :: The Panel and Bilingual Q&A
« Reply #58 on: June 20, 2011, 11:32:49 pm »
Nga ätxäle si tsnì tivel peut nì’eyng fte txivula lahea lì’fyati amip?


makes more sense. I'm still trying to find out its real original meaning though. since you said you needed missing words.

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Re: 09 July :: The Panel and Bilingual Q&A
« Reply #59 on: June 21, 2011, 01:54:20 am »
Much better. Nice question, too!

Sìpawm  nì`ul, ma frapo
« Last Edit: June 21, 2011, 01:59:47 am by `Eylan Ayfalulukanä »

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