Author Topic: 09 July :: The Panel and Bilingual Q&A  (Read 8865 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Tirea Aean

  • The Blue One
  • Olo'eyktan Anawm
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 9891
  • nv Eywa'eveng
  • Karma: 243
  • Oeri ran lu srung
    • Tirea Aean
Re: 09 July :: The Panel and Bilingual Q&A
« Reply #80 on: July 06, 2011, 07:50:50 pm »
All right, I think I have one. I'm not sure what noun case to use in passive voice. I don't think there is one, but I could be very wrong.

Syeykspirä ayvur lu swey mì nì‘awve lì’fya leKllìngan a fko plltxe. Payvur ‘Rrtayä rerol pxawolo’txep kelutralä?

also, I'm not sure about rerol for "are sung"; again with the passive voice. I'm a scientist, you'd think I'd have that one down pat.

Thank you in advance for any corrections!

do not use(directly translate) passive voice in na'vi. we use fko in the normal voice instead. sorry, passive-using scientists xD you now have to say that an unspecified generic agent is doing everything ;D

kelku ikranä a hawnventi yom podcast (na'vi-only): https://tirearadio.com/podcast
Learn Na'vi Discord Chat: https://discord.gg/WF6qcmv

Offline Jane MacMillan

  • Uniltìranyu
  • **
  • *
  • Posts: 138
  • Karma: 8
Re: 09 July :: The Panel and Bilingual Q&A
« Reply #81 on: July 06, 2011, 07:53:17 pm »
So it should be "fko rerol"? Irayo!

Offline Tirea Aean

  • The Blue One
  • Olo'eyktan Anawm
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 9891
  • nv Eywa'eveng
  • Karma: 243
  • Oeri ran lu srung
    • Tirea Aean
Re: 09 July :: The Panel and Bilingual Q&A
« Reply #82 on: July 06, 2011, 07:56:10 pm »
im not 100% sure what youre saying.

kelku ikranä a hawnventi yom podcast (na'vi-only): https://tirearadio.com/podcast
Learn Na'vi Discord Chat: https://discord.gg/WF6qcmv

Offline Prrton

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 2799
  • Karma: 105
  • Rutxe, fmivi. Ftxey fra'u eyawr fuke, ke tsranten.
    • Pìlok leNa'vi a ro MaSempul.org
Re: 09 July :: The Panel and Bilingual Q&A
« Reply #83 on: July 06, 2011, 08:02:07 pm »
All right, I think I have one. I'm not sure what noun case to use in passive voice. I don't think there is one, but I could be very wrong.

Syeykspirä ayvur lu swey mì nì‘awve lì’fya leKllìngan a fko plltxe. Payvur ‘Rrtayä rerol pxawolo’txep kelutralä?

also, I'm not sure about rerol for "are sung"; again with the passive voice. I'm a scientist, you'd think I'd have that one down pat.

Thank you in advance for any corrections!

Ma Tsmuke,

Is this your English meaning?:

  They say that Shakespeare's works are best in the original Klingon. What Terran songs are sung around the communal fire of Hometree?

If so:

   Fkol stawm futa fam ayvurä Syeykspirä lu swey seyä simfa lì’fyayä leKllìngan. Payvurit ’Rrtayä rol fkol pxaw olo’txep Kelutralä?
   One hears that Shakespeare's stories sound best in their original Klingon sources. Which Terran songs are sung around the communal fire of Hometree?

   Edit (simpler and still works, I think):

   Fkol stawm futa fam ayvurä Syeykspirä lu swey seyä simfa nìKllìngan. Payvurit ’Rrtayä rol fkol pxaw olo’txep Kelutralä?

There is no passive in Na’vi via changes in the verbs. You're correct! So the Na’vi way to do it is to (generally) promote what would be the English 'subject' earlier in the sentence marked in the patientive (-t/it/ti) and make the subject fkol (or fko with tsun, zene, fmi, etc).


  
« Last Edit: July 06, 2011, 08:10:10 pm by Prrton »

Offline Tirea Aean

  • The Blue One
  • Olo'eyktan Anawm
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 9891
  • nv Eywa'eveng
  • Karma: 243
  • Oeri ran lu srung
    • Tirea Aean
Re: 09 July :: The Panel and Bilingual Q&A
« Reply #84 on: July 06, 2011, 08:08:37 pm »
Quote
  They say that Shakespeare's works are best in the original Klingon. What Terran songs are sung around the communal fire of Hometree?
   Fkol stawm futa fam ayvurä Syeykspirä lu swey seyä simfa lì’fyayä leKllìngan. Payvurit ’Rrtayä rol fkol pxaw olo’txep Kelutralä?
   One hears that Shakespeare's stories sound best in their original Klingon sources. Which Terran songs are sung around the communal fire of Hometree?

actually, it's

Fko plltxe san fam ayvurä Syeykspirä lu swey seyä simfa lì’fyayä leKllìngan.(sìk) Payvurit ’Rrtayä rol fkol pxaw olo’txep Kelutralä?

kefyak?
« Last Edit: July 06, 2011, 08:10:36 pm by Tirea Aean »

kelku ikranä a hawnventi yom podcast (na'vi-only): https://tirearadio.com/podcast
Learn Na'vi Discord Chat: https://discord.gg/WF6qcmv

Offline Prrton

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 2799
  • Karma: 105
  • Rutxe, fmivi. Ftxey fra'u eyawr fuke, ke tsranten.
    • Pìlok leNa'vi a ro MaSempul.org
Re: 09 July :: The Panel and Bilingual Q&A
« Reply #85 on: July 06, 2011, 08:13:52 pm »
Quote
  They say that Shakespeare's works are best in the original Klingon. What Terran songs are sung around the communal fire of Hometree?
   Fkol stawm futa fam ayvurä Syeykspirä lu swey seyä simfa lì’fyayä leKllìngan. Payvurit ’Rrtayä rol fkol pxaw olo’txep Kelutralä?
   One hears that Shakespeare's stories sound best in their original Klingon sources. Which Terran songs are sung around the communal fire of Hometree?

actually, it's

Fko plltxe san fam ayvurä Syeykspirä lu swey seyä simfa lì’fyayä leKllìngan.(sìk) Payvurit ’Rrtayä rol fkol pxaw olo’txep Kelutralä?

kefyak?

MAYBE. I don't know if san can be used for "common knowledge" when it's not a direct quote by a named source. If there is canon on this, please point me to it.

Tsaria seiyi irayo nìli.

I also made an edit and suggest that nìKllìngan is shorter and more 'standard'-sounding.  ;D



Offline Tirea Aean

  • The Blue One
  • Olo'eyktan Anawm
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 9891
  • nv Eywa'eveng
  • Karma: 243
  • Oeri ran lu srung
    • Tirea Aean
Re: 09 July :: The Panel and Bilingual Q&A
« Reply #86 on: July 06, 2011, 08:18:00 pm »
check paul's blog for "fko plltxe san"

kelku ikranä a hawnventi yom podcast (na'vi-only): https://tirearadio.com/podcast
Learn Na'vi Discord Chat: https://discord.gg/WF6qcmv

Offline Prrton

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 2799
  • Karma: 105
  • Rutxe, fmivi. Ftxey fra'u eyawr fuke, ke tsranten.
    • Pìlok leNa'vi a ro MaSempul.org
Re: 09 July :: The Panel and Bilingual Q&A
« Reply #87 on: July 06, 2011, 08:31:42 pm »
check paul's blog for "fko plltxe san"

Hmmm... That's still not the context of "common knowledge" or "hearsay".

I personally would use Fkol stawm futa until we get a clarification (which I will root around for), but fko plltxe san is certainly intelligible and perfectly perfect for our purposes.

Tsm. Tsyeyn should decide for herself for Saturday's exercise.  ;D


Offline Tirea Aean

  • The Blue One
  • Olo'eyktan Anawm
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 9891
  • nv Eywa'eveng
  • Karma: 243
  • Oeri ran lu srung
    • Tirea Aean
Re: 09 July :: The Panel and Bilingual Q&A
« Reply #88 on: July 06, 2011, 08:52:29 pm »
check paul's blog for "fko plltxe san"

Hmmm... That's still not the context of "common knowledge" or "hearsay".


Yes it is:

Quote from: Paul Frommer
Plltxe fko san ngaru lu mowan Txilte ulte poru nga. ‘I hear you like Txilte and vice versa.’

How  is that NOT hearsay? also, where is it that she meant "common knowledge"? She was saying (if we got the meaning right) "they say that Shakespeare's stories sound best in original Klingon sources..." which does not sound (to me) like "common knowledge" but "hearsay", (aren't they two completely different things?) Also, isnt that an opinion in the first place? (Isn't it like saying "I hear that Baltimore is beautiful" when most Baltimorians would disagree. :P)

this is canon proof that you can say such a thing as "fko plltxe san..." to mean "so I hear........." or "They say........" I'm not sure what's wrong with this.

Personally, I've never heard of "fkol stawm futa...." though I would understand it. in all honesty, this nitpicking is just the difference between "it is said that........." and "it is heard that........"

Quote
Tsm. Tsyeyn should decide for herself for Saturday's exercise.

tam tam. ;D [/derail]
« Last Edit: July 06, 2011, 08:57:08 pm by Tirea Aean »

kelku ikranä a hawnventi yom podcast (na'vi-only): https://tirearadio.com/podcast
Learn Na'vi Discord Chat: https://discord.gg/WF6qcmv

Offline Jane MacMillan

  • Uniltìranyu
  • **
  • *
  • Posts: 138
  • Karma: 8
Re: 09 July :: The Panel and Bilingual Q&A
« Reply #89 on: July 06, 2011, 09:07:07 pm »
Prrton, you're right about the question I was trying to ask. I didn't want to use quotes, since the actual Star Trek quote is "You have not experienced Shakespeare until you have read him in the original Klingon" and I want to be a little more general about it. However, Pawl's example isn't a direct quote either. Hmm.
What is the meaning of "seyä simfa"? I can't seem to find those words or variants in the dictionary.

I really appreciate everyone's guidance.

Offline Tirea Aean

  • The Blue One
  • Olo'eyktan Anawm
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 9891
  • nv Eywa'eveng
  • Karma: 243
  • Oeri ran lu srung
    • Tirea Aean
Re: 09 July :: The Panel and Bilingual Q&A
« Reply #90 on: July 06, 2011, 09:09:30 pm »
seyä is actualy from tsa'u (actually, aysa'u) (go figure. it's the plural genitive[possessive] form.)
simfa is actually fa and tsim (aysim-->sim)

seyä simfa = with/bymeansof their sources.

« Last Edit: July 06, 2011, 09:13:33 pm by Tirea Aean »

kelku ikranä a hawnventi yom podcast (na'vi-only): https://tirearadio.com/podcast
Learn Na'vi Discord Chat: https://discord.gg/WF6qcmv

Offline Prrton

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 2799
  • Karma: 105
  • Rutxe, fmivi. Ftxey fra'u eyawr fuke, ke tsranten.
    • Pìlok leNa'vi a ro MaSempul.org
Re: 09 July :: The Panel and Bilingual Q&A
« Reply #91 on: July 06, 2011, 09:12:36 pm »
Prrton, you're right about the question I was trying to ask. I didn't want to use quotes, since the actual Star Trek quote is "You have not experienced Shakespeare until you have read him in the original Klingon" and I want to be a little more general about it. However, Pawl's example isn't a direct quote either. Hmm.
What is the meaning of "seyä simfa"? I can't seem to find those words or variants in the dictionary.

I really appreciate everyone's guidance.

It's plural for "by their sources". In the singular it could be fa tseyä tsim.

Paul's fko plltxe san... is not a direct quote, but it's INSTRUCTIONAL about what an actual speaker would say in a theoretical scenario. I'm commenting on that separately and will post it this evening.

You should pick whichever version you prefer (find easiest/most comfortable to say).  ;D


Offline Prrton

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 2799
  • Karma: 105
  • Rutxe, fmivi. Ftxey fra'u eyawr fuke, ke tsranten.
    • Pìlok leNa'vi a ro MaSempul.org
Re: 09 July :: The Panel and Bilingual Q&A
« Reply #92 on: July 06, 2011, 09:23:35 pm »
check paul's blog for "fko plltxe san"

Hmmm... That's still not the context of "common knowledge" or "hearsay".


Yes it is:

Quote from: Paul Frommer
Plltxe fko san ngaru lu mowan Txilte ulte poru nga. ‘I hear you like Txilte and vice versa.’

How  is that NOT hearsay? also, where is it that she meant "common knowledge"? She was saying (if we got the meaning right) "they say that Shakespeare's stories sound best in original Klingon sources..." which does not sound (to me) like "common knowledge" but "hearsay", (aren't they two completely different things?) Also, isnt that an opinion in the first place? (Isn't it like saying "I hear that Baltimore is beautiful" when most Baltimorians would disagree. :P)

this is canon proof that you can say such a thing as "fko plltxe san..." to mean "so I hear........." or "They say........" I'm not sure what's wrong with this.

Personally, I've never heard of "fkol stawm futa...." though I would understand it. in all honesty, this nitpicking is just the difference between "it is said that........." and "it is heard that........"

Quote
Tsm. Tsyeyn should decide for herself for Saturday's exercise.

tam tam. ;D [/derail]

I missed the line about Txilte when looking at the blog. My bad. In the rest they seem to be instructional. Fko is standing in for "the way it should be said" in that context (by anyone/everyone).

Fkol stawm futa (as I'm using it) is most reminiscent of the (slightly archaic English) "hear tell of". In Thai this is still very current as Daai yin waa... and in Japanese it is ...da sō desu. These refer to the fact that the speaker has heard these things from others, but has no firsthand knowledge. The Thai one actually uses "hear". The Japanese one does not but translates roughly "supposed to be (that) _____".

Na’vi's san ____ sìk construction requires "reported speech" exactly as it is/was said. I'm a bit surprised that the example on Txilte seems "generalized", but I assume that the speaker has heard 'precisely that sentence said' by at least one (if not more people). I'm going to ask him about this. Soon.  ;)


Offline Tirea Aean

  • The Blue One
  • Olo'eyktan Anawm
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 9891
  • nv Eywa'eveng
  • Karma: 243
  • Oeri ran lu srung
    • Tirea Aean
Re: 09 July :: The Panel and Bilingual Q&A
« Reply #93 on: July 06, 2011, 10:52:00 pm »
check paul's blog for "fko plltxe san"

Hmmm... That's still not the context of "common knowledge" or "hearsay".


Yes it is:

Quote from: Paul Frommer
Plltxe fko san ngaru lu mowan Txilte ulte poru nga. ‘I hear you like Txilte and vice versa.’

How  is that NOT hearsay? also, where is it that she meant "common knowledge"? She was saying (if we got the meaning right) "they say that Shakespeare's stories sound best in original Klingon sources..." which does not sound (to me) like "common knowledge" but "hearsay", (aren't they two completely different things?) Also, isnt that an opinion in the first place? (Isn't it like saying "I hear that Baltimore is beautiful" when most Baltimorians would disagree. :P)

this is canon proof that you can say such a thing as "fko plltxe san..." to mean "so I hear........." or "They say........" I'm not sure what's wrong with this.

Personally, I've never heard of "fkol stawm futa...." though I would understand it. in all honesty, this nitpicking is just the difference between "it is said that........." and "it is heard that........"

Quote
Tsm. Tsyeyn should decide for herself for Saturday's exercise.

tam tam. ;D [/derail]

I missed the line about Txilte when looking at the blog. My bad. In the rest they seem to be instructional. Fko is standing in for "the way it should be said" in that context (by anyone/everyone).

Fkol stawm futa (as I'm using it) is most reminiscent of the (slightly archaic English) "hear tell of". In Thai this is still very current as Daai yin waa... and in Japanese it is ...da sō desu. These refer to the fact that the speaker has heard these things from others, but has no firsthand knowledge. The Thai one actually uses "hear". The Japanese one does not but translates roughly "supposed to be (that) _____".

Na’vi's san ____ sìk construction requires "reported speech" exactly as it is/was said. I'm a bit surprised that the example on Txilte seems "generalized", but I assume that the speaker has heard 'precisely that sentence said' by at least one (if not more people). I'm going to ask him about this. Soon.  ;)



All reported speech, whether it is paraphrased or not must use direct speech syntax.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2011, 10:54:08 pm by Tirea Aean »

kelku ikranä a hawnventi yom podcast (na'vi-only): https://tirearadio.com/podcast
Learn Na'vi Discord Chat: https://discord.gg/WF6qcmv

Offline Jane MacMillan

  • Uniltìranyu
  • **
  • *
  • Posts: 138
  • Karma: 8
Re: 09 July :: The Panel and Bilingual Q&A
« Reply #94 on: July 06, 2011, 11:28:36 pm »
Nice wiki-searching, Tirea Aean! I think it's an odd choice to always use quotes for everything, but far be it from me to argue with the canon.  :)

It seems, thus, that the best phrasing is Fko plltxe san fam ayvurä Syeykspirä lu swey seyä simfa nìKllìngan sìk. Payvurit ’Rrtayä rol fkol pxaw olo’txep Kelutralä?


If/when Paul approves the subject, I think I'll go with this version for Saturday.

Offline Prrton

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 2799
  • Karma: 105
  • Rutxe, fmivi. Ftxey fra'u eyawr fuke, ke tsranten.
    • Pìlok leNa'vi a ro MaSempul.org
Re: 09 July :: The Panel and Bilingual Q&A
« Reply #95 on: July 06, 2011, 11:36:54 pm »

All reported speech, whether it is paraphrased or not must use direct speech syntax.


But hearsay and common knowledge (when discussed) are not always reported speech. For me this argument is essentially about which verbs take san _____ sìk and about the exclusivity. Plltxe seems to use san _____ sìk exclusively. What about peng, fpìl (when one's own thoughts are being reported), stawm, pawm. For example, is this grammatical?

   Oe stolawm san Tul, ma Frapo, tul nemrey! sìk (ta Kamum (if the voice was identifiable)) pximaw fwa ’awm pxolor.

I don't dispute for a second that everything inside of of a san ____ sìk construct must use direct speech syntax.


Offline Prrton

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 2799
  • Karma: 105
  • Rutxe, fmivi. Ftxey fra'u eyawr fuke, ke tsranten.
    • Pìlok leNa'vi a ro MaSempul.org
Re: 09 July :: The Panel and Bilingual Q&A
« Reply #96 on: July 07, 2011, 12:10:06 am »
Nice wiki-searching, Tirea Aean! I think it's an odd choice to always use quotes for everything, but far be it from me to argue with the canon.  :)

It seems, thus, that the best phrasing is Fko plltxe san fam ayvurä Syeykspirä lu swey seyä simfa nìKllìngan sìk. Payvurit ’Rrtayä rol fkol pxaw olo’txep Kelutralä?


If/when Paul approves the subject, I think I'll go with this version for Saturday.

I think this is totally valid for Saturday one way or the other (pending his response about the subject). I currently believe that the Na’vi would HEAR this as your reporting that you have heard actual people (whom you are not naming) say this to you verbatim. (I still have LOTS of questions about paraphrasing. That's for another day.) I assume that Norm and other fluent speakers of Na’vi who are literate may also use (be forced to use) this syntax for talking about things they've read (barring the validity of constructs like Aylì’uta RaneyTekartä awnga fkeytok taweka lu ronsem a tsun fpivìl). Over time we'll see. That's part of the journey.


Offline Prrton

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 2799
  • Karma: 105
  • Rutxe, fmivi. Ftxey fra'u eyawr fuke, ke tsranten.
    • Pìlok leNa'vi a ro MaSempul.org
Re: 09 July :: The Panel and Bilingual Q&A
« Reply #97 on: July 07, 2011, 12:32:06 am »
Any more?...  ;D

ayfawmyu  tìpawm

 
Zefanaya  Zusawa merelìri arusikx, tsun nga ronsrelngivop nìswey a tìfkeytok a fpi lì’fya leNa’vi lu ’upe?*

 
Txonä Rolyu  Ma Pawl, srake fpamìl ngal futa Lì'fya leNa'vi slirvu tsawl fìtxan ulte keng mawkrr 'awa zìsìt sì mawl takrra rel arusikx, sutel tsat mi pirvlltxe?*

 
’Eylan Ayfalulukanä  Krr a horenit famä Lì'fyayä leNa'vi txarmula ngal, pefnetìngäzìk lu teri fwa fmi ngivop nìfya’o a slu lor tengkrr a livam na 'uo akewong kop.?*

 
Lisa  Peseng lu ’o’ frato a tseng a fìlì’fyal ngati ’Rrtamì feykolrrfen?*

 
Tsmuketsamsiyu  Nga poltxe san lì’fyati tsun fko sliva’tsu kop fa ayhapxìt a KE nga’ sìk. Lì’fyari leNa’vi txina sìkenongo fìfnehapxìyä aketsukrun lu ’upe?*

 
judytuna  Fkol stawm futa nga lu pamtesotu pianoä. Ngay lu srak? Tsaria txula aysìrolìt a fpi rel arusikx, pefnekato fu pefamtseofkeyk ngaru fyawolìntxu?*

 
Kayrìlien  Sre fwa lì’fyat leNa'vi ngal ngolop, fyape fparmìl nga teri lahea aylì’fya atxawnula? Eltur tìtxen si srak? Ngari srake saw tsranten, fu lu lesar, fu leskxawng?*

 
’Oma Tirea  Pefyana lolu fwa tìkangkem si hu Karla Mayer sì ayäktor, ulte tskxekeng sarmi a krr, pesìlen heykangham frato??*

 
Jane MacMillan*  Fko plltxe san fam ayvurä Syeykspirä lu swey seyä simfa nìKllìngan sìk. Payvurit ’Rrtayä rol fkol pxaw olo’txep Kelutralä?*

 


« Last Edit: July 07, 2011, 12:36:13 am by Prrton »

Offline omängum fra'uti

  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 3804
  • Karma: 127
  • Na'vi's first grammar nazi
    • Pronounced Na'vi words
Re: 09 July :: The Panel and Bilingual Q&A
« Reply #98 on: July 07, 2011, 01:32:37 am »
I suppose I can take one of the pre-approved questions.

Quote
  - Var ngivop lì’fyati a fì’uri pehapxì sunu ngaru frato?
  - What is your favorite part of continuing to create the language?
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

Offline Prrton

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 2799
  • Karma: 105
  • Rutxe, fmivi. Ftxey fra'u eyawr fuke, ke tsranten.
    • Pìlok leNa'vi a ro MaSempul.org
Re: 09 July :: The Panel and Bilingual Q&A
« Reply #99 on: July 07, 2011, 08:58:08 am »
I suppose I can take one of the pre-approved questions.

Quote
 - Var ngivop lì’fyati a fì’uri pehapxì sunu ngaru frato?
  - What is your favorite part of continuing to create the language?

Tsloleiam!

« Last Edit: July 07, 2011, 09:52:45 am by Prrton »

 

Become LearnNavi's friend on Facebook Follow LearnNavi on Twitter! Watch LearnNavi's videos on YouTube

SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines
Privacy Policy
| XHTML | RSS | WAP2 | Site Rules

LearnNavi is not affiliated with the official Avatar website,
James Cameron, LightStorm Entertainment or The Walt Disney Company.
All trademarks and servicemarks are the properties of their respective owners.
Images in the LearnNavi.org Forums and Gallery may not be used without permission.

LearnNavi Affiliates:
ToS

LearnNavi is the community to learn Na'vi, the Avatar Language
"A place where real friendships are made." -Paul Frommer

AvatarMeet | Learn Na'vi Forum | Learn Na'vi Wiki | Na'viteri

LearnNavi