Author Topic: A few sentences in Na'vi, please check it out  (Read 2626 times)

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Offline Prrton

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Re: A few sentences in Na'vi, please check it out
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2009, 09:45:43 pm »
Unfortunately, Tsahìk is not much help. She says [ʒeiksuli:].  :(

I just saw the movie again last night.

Others do call him [jeiksuli:] (Na'vi [yeyksulii]).

We have to remember that there is MUCH more linguistic talent (cumulative) in this forum than there was on that movie set. Frommer surely wasn't there at every second, and I doubt the voice coach had more clout than the director. They certainly didn't do the shots OVER and OVER again at the cost per second that they were running on those sets just because the pronunciation was a little off.

They also call the Na'vi (universal Pandoran) neural bond [caheilu] (Na'vi [tsaheylu].

For me this fact confirms my theory that the dialog in the script was situationally adjusted orthographically (the spelling) so that the actors wouldn't mispronounce the words based on their being native readers of English.

Examples:

neu (script version) >>> new ("correct" spelling according to Frommer's rules)
Tsahaylu (script version) >>> Tsaheylu (presumed "correct spelling"    "   "   ")

I've said this at other times and in other places, but I think that Frommer did NOT have final editorial responsibility over the word list in the Survival Guide. It seems that something that was "tweaked" for the actors may have ended up in there. I'm sure they (the authors/publishers) never expected anyone to be trying to use that list to form complex NEW sentences in Na'vi.

Ha, ma smuk, we really have to be prepared for some RELEARNING when we have better materials from the source. And we know who that is... ;)

Is srung really a noun (only)?  ??? It looks suspiciously like a verb to me... slä, ke oe omum.

  :-\

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Offline Coda

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Re: A few sentences in Na'vi, please check it out
« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2009, 10:00:22 pm »
Unfortunately, Tsahìk is not much help. She says [ʒeiksuli:].  :(

On the other hand, Mo'at speaks some of the best english out of all the Na'vi, so maybe her accent's just not as bad.

Offline Taronyu

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Re: A few sentences in Na'vi, please check it out
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2009, 12:40:09 pm »
I certainly think you're right there, Prrton. The problem is that what should we trust: Frommer's non-movie data, or the actual spoken word?

That's a really good point about tsaheylu. I'll change that. I now use new.

Besides that, I don't have much to add.

Offline Doolio

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Re: A few sentences in Na'vi, please check it out
« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2009, 01:56:02 pm »
okay, i think i can try to contribute this topic:) first, check out my posts here (from the linked post, to the big post where i presented my 'theory' - span of about five mine posts, i think it has valid arguments:)
http://forum.learnnavi.org/index.php?topic=312.msg8024#msg8024

as for jake sully, mo'at does say ʒeiksuli:, but i think that's just an automatic phonetic deformation, not an actual analyzed phonetization. same goes for yeiksuli...similar to when neytiri tries to teach jake the word 'nari', he automatically says 'nah-dee', and right after that, he says 'nah-the-ee' and then neytiri has no choice but to slap him in the forehead:)
« Last Edit: January 01, 2010, 05:18:13 am by Doolio »
...taj rad...

Offline Uniltìranyu

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Re: A few sentences in Na'vi, please check it out
« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2010, 03:24:05 am »

Quote
Considering this is a hapax legomenon (a word that appears only once), it is assuming a whole lot to say that that is their transcription for borrowing fricatives.
I'm just hypothesizing based on languages I know:

Japanese does not allow final s, z, sh, ch, j, l... the list goes on forever (literally) with the exception of "n".

ベース bēsu "base" or "vase"
ベースボール bēsubōru "baseball"
チェンジ chenji "change"
ジャパニーズ japaniizu Japanese
バッジ bajji "badge"
ワッチ wacchi "watch"

Both u and i are easily devoiced in modern Japanese (especially in the Kantō area around Tōkyō). They come out as little more than some extra air. Sometimes u is more contextually lose-able than i and vice versa.

In my mind, Na'vi's ì is its weakest vocalic player, so there it is stuck on the illegal backside of s- in Ìnglìsì where s is the best candidate to stand in for English's "sh".

PS: Fì'u tsam txepyä lu, srak? Txo ha, oe ye'rìn h-ìy-um futa oel fp-er-ìl.  :-\

Ulte nìmun oel plltxe:

Please don't smite me.
Please don't smite me.
Please don't smite me.  :-*

Kìyevame. (...kxawm...)

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Okay, one problem with this: while your ベースボール bēsubōru "baseball" statement is linguistically true, the Japanese have a Native word for it - 野球 yakkyu. They use this word more than they use the word ベースボール.
Eywa ayngahu, frapo nìNa'vi paylltxeie...
May Eywa be with you, all Na'vi speakers.

Offline Prrton

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Re: A few sentences in Na'vi, please check it out
« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2010, 07:44:25 pm »

Quote
Considering this is a hapax legomenon (a word that appears only once), it is assuming a whole lot to say that that is their transcription for borrowing fricatives.
I'm just hypothesizing based on languages I know:

Japanese does not allow final s, z, sh, ch, j, l... the list goes on forever (literally) with the exception of "n".

ベース bēsu "base" or "vase"
ベースボール bēsubōru "baseball"
チェンジ chenji "change"
ジャパニーズ japaniizu Japanese
バッジ bajji "badge"
ワッチ wacchi "watch"

Both u and i are easily devoiced in modern Japanese (especially in the Kantō area around Tōkyō). They come out as little more than some extra air. Sometimes u is more contextually lose-able than i and vice versa.

In my mind, Na'vi's ì is its weakest vocalic player, so there it is stuck on the illegal backside of s- in Ìnglìsì where s is the best candidate to stand in for English's "sh".

PS: Fì'u tsam txepyä lu, srak? Txo ha, oe ye'rìn h-ìy-um futa oel fp-er-ìl.  :-\

Ulte nìmun oel plltxe:

Please don't smite me.
Please don't smite me.
Please don't smite me.  :-*

Kìyevame. (...kxawm...)

_____________________________

Okay, one problem with this: while your ベースボール bēsubōru "baseball" statement is linguistically true, the Japanese have a Native word for it - 野球 yakkyu. They use this word more than they use the word ベースボール.

It's very true that 野球 is very commonly used for "baseball". But why is that a "problem"?

I was using the word ベースボール bēsubōru (along with a long list of other) as an example to show how the language behaves phonologically, and specifically to show how it adopts non-native vocabulary (外来語). The original discussion relates to theorization around the possible origin of the Na'vi word for English (Ìnglìsì).

I didn't make any assertion regarding frequency of word usage.  :'(

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Offline MonocleO.Q

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Re: A few sentences in Na'vi, please check it out
« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2010, 10:27:43 pm »
I've heard different. I use べスボール all the time. I only use やきゅう when I'm speaking formally. And when speaking about it with my friends over there, we rarely used やきゅう. I suppose they might have thought I didn't know it, but we don't even use it in my Japanese class in high school. But then again, this is a forum for Na'vi, not Japanese semantics. 大丈夫でしょ (だいじょうぶでしょう)

rey yol ulte lu fpom.

Offline Uniltìranyu

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Re: A few sentences in Na'vi, please check it out
« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2010, 05:54:58 pm »
My point was that I have never heard a native use ベースボール to refer to the sport, while I heard 野球 used to refer to the sport. Only when explaining the real-world referent behind 野球 (yakyu) would a native use the phrase ベースボール, hoping that it would be close enough to the original English for the foreigner.

But you are right about languages borrowing words and making them work within the constraints of their sound systems; many languages do it, including English.

but enough of that. Let's get back to the Na'vi sentences!
« Last Edit: January 02, 2010, 05:57:07 pm by Uniltìranyu »
Eywa ayngahu, frapo nìNa'vi paylltxeie...
May Eywa be with you, all Na'vi speakers.

 

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