Author Topic: Correcting Dialogues of NfAM...?  (Read 2230 times)

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Offline Pam (P.A.'li makto)

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Correcting Dialogues of NfAM...?
« on: September 07, 2012, 06:49:33 am »
Kaltxì, ma frapo!

Khm... is there an alive topic about correcting the dialogues of Na'vi_from_Avatar_Movie yet? I know it's a very good basis but since it was written quite a long time ago, it has some mistakes, so I'd like to see them corrected.
Is there a correction somewhere? Or is it OK to start a new thread for it?


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ta Pam

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Offline Pam (P.A.'li makto)

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Re: Correcting Dialogues of NfAM...?
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2012, 10:52:35 am »
OK, let me ask all my questions then here:


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Offline Plumps

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Re: Correcting Dialogues of NfAM...?
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2012, 03:05:22 pm »
Well, at least for the second I can give you the link to the speech. Yes, it’s ayoeri

Offline Blue Elf

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Re: Correcting Dialogues of NfAM...?
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2012, 04:03:25 pm »
I'm afraid that regarding first and second statement there is no good answer. We should look at these as to old fashioned language from the time, where grammar was not so subtle, and it doesn't conform to out current knowledge. as we were warned:
Nobody knows for sure what was said, and these are just our best guesses, and they might be wrong, and the actors or characters may have said things badly anyway.
Correct version of first statement is something like
Oeri ontu lu teya fa peyä fahew akewong -> My nose is full of his alien smell

To correct Mo'at sentence, just remove unknown text in parenthesis.
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Offline Pam (P.A.'li makto)

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Re: Correcting Dialogues of NfAM...?
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2012, 06:03:55 am »
Quote
Nobody knows for sure what was said, and these are just our best guesses, and they might be wrong, and the actors or characters may have said things badly anyway.
Did dr Frommer say that? Or maybe he knows what these words were... It is very important because I have plans with these lines.
Anyway: thank you both for your help!
Here are the lines I have so far, so would you be so kind as to take a look at them and tell me if you see any more mistakes?

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Re: Correcting Dialogues of NfAM...?
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2012, 02:33:43 pm »
That warning you can find at LN wiki, page with lines from the movie (as those lines were created by LN members).
With current knowledge and vocabulary, I'd rewrite some of sentence like this:
Quote
Neytiri:   Aungia lolu! Tsahìkur txele lu!
Sounds like "tsahìk has this matter"
My version: Tsahìkä txele lu -> It's matter of tsahìk (maybe just wrong pronunciation in the movie??)
Quote
Neytiri:   Oel pot tspìmìyang, tsakrr za'u aungia ta Eywa.
Two infixes in the same position are not allowed
My version: Oe hìrmawl fte tspìyevang pot... -> I was preparing in to order to kill him...
Quote
Eytukan:   Poltxe oe san zene ke(a) uniltìranyu ke ziva'u fìtseng. ((ketepeu)), fahew akewong.
My version: Poltxe oe san zenke kea uniltìranyu ziva'u fìtseng. Oeri ontu lu teya fa peyä fahew akewong
I said: "No dreamwalker can come here". My nose is full of his alien smell.
Quote
Mo’at:   Ma ’ite, awngeyä fya’ori ((zìri/sì lì’/seli)) nga sänume sivi poru fte tsivun pivlltxe sì tivìran na ayoeng.
Quote
Jake:   Lu aylì'u ngaru, ayngaru nìwotx.
Translation is: I have something to say, to all of you, so correct version would be:
Lu aylì'u oeru, ayngaru nìwotx. (the same is used a few lines bellow)
Quote
Tsu’tey:   Tse'a srak? Fìpo lu vrrtep a mì sokx atsleng! Ke Tsun ke rivey!
Wrong position of negation particle
Quote
Mo’at:   Pori tireati munge mì nga! … Ulte tìng ayoer nì'eyng hu ngeyä ya … tivìran po ayoekip … na Na'viyä hapxì! … (Eo Eywa oe 'ia.) … Lu hasey!
Blue parts says (literaly):  Take her spirit into you and give (it) to us in response with your air ..
But now we have real word for "breath", so:
Ulte tìng ayoer nì'eyng fa ngeyä syeha (I believe that "fa" is better here)
Quote
Tsu’tey:   Fpole’ sawtutel ’upxaret … ayoeri tsat new … tsun mivunge.
...  that they can take whatever they want
This part is a little strange, I'd try (but not sure about correctness):  Fpole’ sawtutel ’upxaret a ayuri fol new, tsun mivunge -> (literaly) Sky people sent us message that regarding things they want, they can take them. (note: there is no "and no one can stop them in Na'vi")

So, does it help?
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


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Re: Correcting Dialogues of NfAM...?
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2012, 03:33:40 pm »
Quote
Mo’at:   Ma ’ite, awngeyä fya’ori nga sänume sivi poru fte tsivun pivlltxe sì tivìran na ayoeng.

I’d say it’s nìayoeng which in casual speech becomes nayweng

But wait… :o :o :o
Does she really say sänume si? … Can it be? After all this time, still a piece of vocabulary that’s not in the Dictionary :o :o :o

Begs the question what’s the difference between kar and sänume si? ‘teach’ vs. ‘instruct’?

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Re: Correcting Dialogues of NfAM...?
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2012, 04:12:58 pm »
Does she really say sänume si? … Can it be? After all this time, still a piece of vocabulary that’s not in the Dictionary :o :o :o
Really she says it. Well, I didn't notice this verb doesn't exist.... Question for Paul.
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


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Re: Correcting Dialogues of NfAM...?
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2012, 04:28:09 pm »
Well, if it’s in the dialogue, he probably created it ;) This is not an instance like skepek … this is too complex to be just a glitch of the actor.

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Re: Correcting Dialogues of NfAM...?
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2012, 01:17:05 am »
I'm very thankful for your precious answers, ma eylan, since I really want to learn the language, so these solutions are useful for me and others too.
What I have not told you yet is: I'd like to keep the corrected lines as similar to te original ones as possible, which means as few changes as possible. In other words: I don't look for the best (most appropiate ) version of the context but an acceptable one which is the closest to the originally pronounced lines.
(E.g. instead of "Fte fol Kelutralti skiva'a." I put "Fte fol Kelutralit skiva'a." because the rule requires changing it.)
So  I would like an acceptable substitution for the following sentence:
Quote
Quote
Neytiri:   Oel pot tspìmìyang, tsakrr za'u aungia ta Eywa.
Two infixes in the same position are not allowed
My version: Oe hìrmawl fte tspìyevang pot... -> I was preparing in to order to kill him...
I think not only the 2 infixes together are  incorrect, but also "za'u" is not in the correct tense. What do you think? Would "zama'u" or "zola'u" be better? And what infix should be in "tspang" to fit the sentence best, even if it won't be perfect?

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Re: Correcting Dialogues of NfAM...?
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2012, 03:45:52 am »
Regarding
Quote
Fte fol Kelutralti skiva'a." / "Fte fol Kelutralit skiva'a
both are perfectly correct (you can use -ti always, after vowel, consonant, diphthong)
Quote
Oel pot tspìmìyang, tsakrr za'u aungia ta Eywa
This is harder, single infix do not help, you need to add some word.
Oel namew pot tspìyang, tsakrr za'u aungia ta Eywa
This is probably best: I just wanted to kill him, then sign from Eywa came. "Namew" establishes time context, so there's no need to repeat it. Maybe <ol> could be used instead of <am>, not completely sure.
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


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Re: Correcting Dialogues of NfAM...?
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2012, 04:52:36 am »
Regarding
Quote
Fte fol Kelutralti skiva'a." / "Fte fol Kelutralit skiva'a
both are perfectly correct (you can use -ti always, after vowel, consonant, diphthong)
Exactly.

Quote
Oel pot tspìmìyang, tsakrr za'u aungia ta Eywa
This is harder, single infix do not help, you need to add some word.
Oel namew pot tspìyang, tsakrr za'u aungia ta Eywa
This is probably best: I just wanted to kill him, then sign from Eywa came. "Namew" establishes time context, so there's no need to repeat it. Maybe <ol> could be used instead of <am>, not completely sure.
In the October MeetUp 2010 kan was established as a modal with exactly that sentence in mind which was ruled as incorrect. It works like new, so either oel karman futa poti tspivang or oe karman poti tspivang work.
For the za’u part, I would also would opt for ‹ol›, especially if you use ‹arm› in kan — the imperfective establishes the frame of the narrative (I intended to kill him) and the perfective establishes what happened during this frame (a sign from Eywa came)

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Re: Correcting Dialogues of NfAM...?
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2012, 05:14:37 am »
Quote
Fte fol Kelutralti skiva'a." / "Fte fol Kelutralit skiva'a
both are perfectly correct (you can use -ti always, after vowel, consonant, diphthong)
:-X OMG! :-X Tell me at least it USED TO BE a rule that after consonants there must be "-it" ! (Otherwise I'll die of shame! :-[)

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Re: Correcting Dialogues of NfAM...?
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2012, 05:27:38 am »
Quote
Fte fol Kelutralti skiva'a." / "Fte fol Kelutralit skiva'a
both are perfectly correct (you can use -ti always, after vowel, consonant, diphthong)
:-X OMG! :-X Tell me at least it USED TO BE a rule that after consonants there must be "-it" ! (Otherwise I'll die of shame! :-[)

Well, never a hard-pressed rule but it was used to not confuse beginners even further – I still do it from time to time. Don’t be ashamed, people tend to forget that we are all students here ;) we learn (and teach) as we go along :D

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Re: Correcting Dialogues of NfAM...?
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2012, 03:34:40 pm »
Quote
Fte fol Kelutralti skiva'a." / "Fte fol Kelutralit skiva'a
both are perfectly correct (you can use -ti always, after vowel, consonant, diphthong)
:-X OMG! :-X Tell me at least it USED TO BE a rule that after consonants there must be "-it" ! (Otherwise I'll die of shame! :-[)
You can look at -ti as suffix for lazy people :) I prefer -it after consonant too
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


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Re: Correcting Dialogues of NfAM...?
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2012, 05:47:37 am »
There's that scene when Tsu'tey dies and Jake is saying something that sounds like "Oeru txoa livu, ma oeyä tsmukan. Kivä set ne Sa'nok tirea. Ngari hu Eywa salew tirea, tokx 'ì'awn slu Na'viyä hapxì…" I'm not sure of this, especially the middle sentence. Would you check it?
« Last Edit: September 23, 2012, 03:19:02 pm by P.A.'li makto »

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Re: Correcting Dialogues of NfAM...?
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2012, 01:41:22 pm »
I'm lazy to find and see the video, but to me that text appears to be correct. It is text similar (if not the same) to words which hunter says to prey he just killed (like thanks to Eywa).
Meaning is:
I'm sorry, my brother. Let spirit goes to Mother. Your spirit goes to Eywa, body remains to became part of Na'vi.
The last part doesn't fit here, as it means that body will be eaten by Na'vi - what is not case of Tsu'tey, of course....
« Last Edit: September 24, 2012, 02:16:27 am by Blue Elf »
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


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Re: Correcting Dialogues of NfAM...?
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2012, 03:17:51 pm »
Quote
The last part doesn't fit here, as it means that body will be eaten by Na'vi - what is not case of Tsu'tey, of course....
Er, I can hear "tokx 'ì'awn " clearly, then Jake's voice becomes softer and softer, but it seems to be "slu Na'viyä hapxì", although what you say is definitely true.  :-\

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Re: Correcting Dialogues of NfAM...?
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2012, 01:49:32 am »
An other one:
after Jake's speech (translated by Tsu'tey) to the People Jake and Neytiri run away to the toruk, and for a second Mo'at and Tsu'tey come into sight again, and Tsu'tey shouts something (2 syllables). What is that he shouts?

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Re: Correcting Dialogues of NfAM...?
« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2012, 02:11:25 pm »
Quote
The last part doesn't fit here, as it means that body will be eaten by Na'vi - what is not case of Tsu'tey, of course....
Er, I can hear "tokx 'ì'awn " clearly, then Jake's voice becomes softer and softer, but it seems to be "slu Na'viyä hapxì", although what you say is definitely true.  :-\
Checked just now - seems you heard correctly...
Quote
... and Tsu'tey shouts something (2 syllables). What is that he shouts?
Tried a few times, but it doesn't sounds like any words I know :-[
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


 

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