Author Topic: Song Translation - Blue Ridge Mountains, by Fleet Foxes  (Read 927 times)

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Offline Kayrìlien

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Song Translation - Blue Ridge Mountains, by Fleet Foxes
« on: February 04, 2010, 02:17:14 am »
Kaltxì ma aysmuktu! After hanging around the forums for a week and a half, basically awestruck by both Avatar and the community that has assembled here to help further the growth of one of its most underappreciated achievements, I finally buckled down and tried to learn as many Na'vi words as I could, as many grammatical intricacies as I could tolerate, and as many Wikipedia linguistics articles as I could comprehend.

Hopefully that has paid off. I figured that attempting to translate simple English phrases into Na'vi would be the easiest way to start, but I got bored quickly and decided to jump ahead to something more ambitious. I looked through my playlists for a song whose lyrics could be (mostly) translatable into Na'vi, and "Blue Ridge Mountains" by Fleet Foxes emerged as the first candidate. Here it is!

Note: This is probably definitely rife with errors. I've given it my best shot, but I would really appreciate any corrections to mistakes I have made, or any alternate translations of the original lyrics that are more closely aligned with the original.

Actual Song Lyrics
Altered Lyrics (for ease of translation)
Grammatical thingamabobs
Na'vi Lyrics (I hope)

-----------------------------------

My brother, where do you intend to go tonight?
My brother, where are you about to go to?
VOC I-GEN brother, where-to you go<IMM.FUT>?
Ma oeyä tsmukan, pesengne nga kíyä?

I heard that you missed your connecting flight to the Blue Ridge Mountains, over near Tennessee.
I heard that you will not fly to Tennessee’s blue floating mountains
I hear<PAST> that you not fly<FUT> to Tennessee-GEN floating mountains ADJ.M-blue.
Oe tamìng mikyun futa nga ke tswayon ne Tenesiyä Iknimaya aean.

You're ever welcome with me any time you like.
You may live with me always.
You dwell<SUBJ><LAUD> always with me.
Nga kelku siveiyi frakrr hu oe.

Let's drive to the countryside, leave behind some green-eyed look-a-likes.
We (the two of us) will ride out to the ancestors’ land, and we will leave behind two dreamwalker bodies.
We ride out<FUT> to ancestor-GEN land, and we-ERG DUAL-dreamwalker body-ACC leave behind<FUT>.
Oeng kämayakto ne pizayuyä atxkxe, sì oengìl meuniltìrantokxit txayìng.

So no one gets worried, no.
No one will feel fear concerning the two of us.
No one-ERG fear-ACC feel<FUT> (two of us)-about.
Kawtul txoputi ‘ayefu oengteri.

Kawtul txoputi ‘ayefu oengteri.

But Sean, don't get careless.
Sean, don’t not be careful.
Sean, do not not be careful.
Tsan, rä’ä ke tìng nari.

I'm sure it'll be fine.
I know that everything will be good.
I know that everything good be<FUT>.
Oe omum futa fra’u sìltsan layu.

I love you, I love you, O brother of mine.
I love you, I love you, O brother of mine.
You beloved be me-TOP, you beloved be, VOC I-GEN brother.
Nga yawne lu oer, nga yawne lu, ma oeyä tsmukan.

In the quivering forest, where the shivering dog rests, our good grandfather built a wooden nest.
Our father’s good father lived in the mighty forest, near the sleeping viperwolves.
(The two of us)-GEN father-GEN father ADJ.M-good dwell<PAST> in+forest, close to PLU-viperwolf sleep<IMPF>.
Oengeyä sempuleyä sempul asìltsan kelku sami mina’rìng, lok aynantang herahaw.

And the river got frozen, and the home got snowed in.
The river’s water was not moving, and no one could find the home.
River-GEN water not move<IMPF.PAST>, and no one-ERG house-ACC not find<SUBJ>.
Kilvanyä pay ke ramikx, sì kawtul kelkuti ke rivun.

And the yellow moon glowed bright ‘til the morning light.
The sky’s yellow light was blossoming, but the sun came to us.
Sky-GEN light ADJ.M-yellow blossom<IMPF.PAST>, but sun come<PAST> to (the two of us).
Taweyä atan arim ‘armivong, slä tsawke zama’u ne oeng.

Terrible am I child? Even if you don't mind.
O child, I am evil, and I don’t matter to you.
VOC child, I bad be, and I you-TOP not matter.
Ma ‘eveng, oe kawng lu, sì oe ngari ke tsranten.

Oengeyä sempuleyä sempul asìltsan kelku sami mina’rìng, lok aynantang herahaw.
Kilvanyä pay ke ramikx, sì kawtul kelkuti ke rivun.
Taweyä atan arim ‘armivong, slä tsawke zama’u ne oeng.
Ma ‘eveng, oe kawng lu, sì oe ngari ke tsranten.


-----------------------------------------------------

Please tell me what you think, and don't be hesitant to correct any grammatical mistakes I've made. There are bound to be many.

Hope you enjoy, ma aysmuktu!

Kayrìlien

Offline Kayrìlien

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Re: Song Translation - Blue Ridge Mountains, by Fleet Foxes
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2010, 02:21:35 am »
Some things I noticed after posting:

-- I posted this in the Learn Na'vi section of the forum rather than any sort of projects/music section because I'm still rather unsure of my grammar. Once I have all the kinks worked out, I have no problem with reposting this in a more appropriate place.

-- Where the Na'vi lyrics are repeated in the post are places in the actual song where the lyrics repeat.

Kayrìlien

Offline Lance R. Casey

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Re: Song Translation - Blue Ridge Mountains, by Fleet Foxes
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2010, 01:30:31 pm »
My brother, where do you intend to go tonight?
My brother, where are you about to go to?
VOC I-GEN brother, where-to you go<IMM.FUT>?
Ma oeyä tsmukan, pesengne nga kíyä?

Typo: kì.

Interesting take with peseng + ne, and as far as I'm concerned there's nothing to rule it out.
In the movie Neytiri says kempe si nga to Tsu'tey, and assuming that kem si is to be construed as a compound verb for "act" (since we know that si on its own can't fill that function), it suggests that pe+-modified words do not necessarily change their syntactic role. A bit tenuous, perhaps, but still.

I heard that you missed your connecting flight to the Blue Ridge Mountains, over near Tennessee.
I heard that you will not fly to Tennessee’s blue floating mountains
I hear<PAST> that you not fly<FUT> to Tennessee-GEN floating mountains ADJ.M-blue.
Oe tamìng mikyun futa nga ke tswayon ne Tenesiyä Iknimaya aean.

Here I would employ the perfective: tolìng. Also, another movie line is poru tìng nari look at him, so futa should probably be fì'ur a. However, there is a simpler solution: stawm hear.
Lastly, given the original line, perhaps the proximate past tense fits better in tswon.

You're ever welcome with me any time you like.
You may live with me always.
You dwell<SUBJ><LAUD> always with me.
Nga kelku siveiyi frakrr hu oe.

To me this reads as an optative, i.e. "may you always dwell with me". Suggestions (cliticized hu for better pronunciation flow, IMO):

Oel neiew futa nga kelku sivi frakrr oehu
Frakrr oel tayeiung futa nga kelku sivi oehu (tung allow)

Let's drive to the countryside, leave behind some green-eyed look-a-likes.
We (the two of us) will ride out to the ancestors’ land, and we will leave behind two dreamwalker bodies.
We ride out<FUT> to ancestor-GEN land, and we-ERG DUAL-dreamwalker body-ACC leave behind<FUT>.
Oeng kämayakto ne pizayuyä atxkxe, sì oengìl meuniltìrantokxit txayìng.

This is a perfect opportunity to use the particle ko, which solicits agreement (as in "let's", here):

Oeng kämakto ko ne fizayuyä atxkxe, ulte oengal meuniltìrantokxit txìng ko

Note the plural of pizayu, the interclausal conjunction ulte, and the inflected form of oeng (it reverts to its root oe+nga).

So no one gets worried, no.
No one will feel fear concerning the two of us.
No one-ERG fear-ACC feel<FUT> (two of us)-about.
Kawtul txoputi ‘ayefu oengteri.

Topic could also be a way to go, and we have txopu si be afraid too.

But Sean, don't get careless.
Sean, don’t not be careful.
Sean, do not not be careful.
Tsan, rä’ä ke tìng nari.

Wrong compound verb: the one you want is nari si. Since Na'vi has negative concord, I honestly don't know what happens with "true" double negatives. How about a simple nari sivi, if you want to play it safe?

I'm sure it'll be fine.
I know that everything will be good.
I know that everything good be<FUT>.
Oe omum futa fra’u sìltsan layu.

With futa, you need a transitive subject (oel). There is also spaw believe.

I love you, I love you, O brother of mine.
I love you, I love you, O brother of mine.
You beloved be me-TOP, you beloved be, VOC I-GEN brother.
Nga yawne lu oer, nga yawne lu, ma oeyä tsmukan.

Note: oer(u) is dative, not topic (which is oeri), but the structure is correct.

In the quivering forest, where the shivering dog rests, our good grandfather built a wooden nest.
Our father’s good father lived in the mighty forest, near the sleeping viperwolves.
(The two of us)-GEN father-GEN father ADJ.M-good dwell<PAST> in+forest, close to PLU-viperwolf sleep<IMPF>.
Oengeyä sempuleyä sempul asìltsan kelku sami mina’rìng, lok aynantang herahaw.

The genitive suffix takes the form after a consonant, so it's sempulä, and the adposition "in" is . Lok is a bit of a loose end, but assuming that it is an adposition too, the only other needed change is a participle (verbal adjective): aynantang husahaw sleeping vierpwolves.

And the river got frozen, and the home got snowed in.
The river’s water was not moving, and no one could find the home.
River-GEN water not move<IMPF.PAST>, and no one-ERG house-ACC not find<SUBJ>.
Kilvanyä pay ke ramikx, sì kawtul kelkuti ke rivun.

Kilvanä as per above, <arm> in rikx, and then there's ulte rather than again. As for the second phrase:

kawtu ke tsamun kelkut rivun
no-one could find the home

Tsun, being a modal verb, requires the subjunctive in run -- and the accusative suffix can be shortened to -t when the word ends in a vowel.

And the yellow moon glowed bright ‘til the morning light.
The sky’s yellow light was blossoming, but the sun came to us.
Sky-GEN light ADJ.M-yellow blossom<IMPF.PAST>, but sun come<PAST> to (the two of us).
Taweyä atan arim ‘armivong, slä tsawke zama’u ne oeng.

That's tawä, and the word for "blossom" is 'ong -- 'ivong is the optative form as used by Frommer. Also, I'd expect zola'u, or perhaps tsawke wäpolìntxu oengar the sun showed itself to us, and we have a word for "until": vaykrr. (And, of course, we still don't know exactly what atan is...)

Terrible am I child? Even if you don't mind.
O child, I am evil, and I don’t matter to you.
VOC child, I bad be, and I you-TOP not matter.
Ma ‘eveng, oe kawng lu, sì oe ngari ke tsranten.

Ulte again, and here I'd go for dative rather than topic.


---------------

Most impressive!  :)

Lì'fya ngeyä sìltsan lu, ulte aylì'ut ngeyä oel tsere'eia a fì'u oeru prrte' lu.

// Lance R. Casey

Offline Kayrìlien

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Re: Song Translation - Blue Ridge Mountains, by Fleet Foxes
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2010, 05:53:53 pm »
My brother, where do you intend to go tonight?
My brother, where are you about to go to?
VOC I-GEN brother, where-to you go<IMM.FUT>?
Ma oeyä tsmukan, pesengne nga kíyä?

Typo: kì.

Interesting take with peseng + ne, and as far as I'm concerned there's nothing to rule it out.
In the movie Neytiri says kempe si nga to Tsu'tey, and assuming that kem si is to be construed as a compound verb for "act" (since we know that si on its own can't fill that function), it suggests that pe+-modified words do not necessarily change their syntactic role. A bit tenuous, perhaps, but still.

Definitely kìya...I believe I typed that one before I downloaded the Na'vi keyboard layout, so it was a matter of trying as many Alt+number combinations as it took to find the right one.  ;)

Regarding pesengne, I asked about that one in another thread on the forum, and a couple other people suggested that as a good way to ask that sort of question. Like you said, it makes sense and doesn't break any rules I'm aware of.

I heard that you missed your connecting flight to the Blue Ridge Mountains, over near Tennessee.
I heard that you will not fly to Tennessee’s blue floating mountains
I hear<PAST> that you not fly<FUT> to Tennessee-GEN floating mountains ADJ.M-blue.
Oe tamìng mikyun futa nga ke tswayon ne Tenesiyä Iknimaya aean.

Here I would employ the perfective: tolìng. Also, another movie line is poru tìng nari look at him, so futa should probably be fì'ur a. However, there is a simpler solution: stawm hear.
Lastly, given the original line, perhaps the proximate past tense fits better in tswon.

Hmm, so using the perfective and stawm rather than tìng mikyun, the first part of the phrase would then be "Oe olstawm fi'ur a..."? And you're right, tswìmon does make more sense in regard to the original line.

Do we have a word for mountains that don't float? I'm not from Tennessee, but I'm fairly certain there's no large unobtanium deposits in the area...

You're ever welcome with me any time you like.
You may live with me always.
You dwell<SUBJ><LAUD> always with me.
Nga kelku siveiyi frakrr hu oe.

To me this reads as an optative, i.e. "may you always dwell with me". Suggestions (cliticized hu for better pronunciation flow, IMO):

Oel neiew futa nga kelku sivi frakrr oehu
Frakrr oel tayeiung futa nga kelku sivi oehu (tung allow)

So your first suggestion reads something like "I want that you may dwell always with me.", and the second something like "Always I will allow that you may dwell with me."? The second one is more appropriate to the intent of the original line, as Robin (the singer) is not expressly telling his brother (Sean) to come live with him, he's just saying that it's okay if he wants to. Using allow in this case is also a better construction IMO.

And I definitely agree that oehu fits better at the end of the line than hu oe.

Let's drive to the countryside, leave behind some green-eyed look-a-likes.
We (the two of us) will ride out to the ancestors’ land, and we will leave behind two dreamwalker bodies.
We ride out<FUT> to ancestor-GEN land, and we-ERG DUAL-dreamwalker body-ACC leave behind<FUT>.
Oeng kämayakto ne pizayuyä atxkxe, sì oengìl meuniltìrantokxit txayìng.

This is a perfect opportunity to use the particle ko, which solicits agreement (as in "let's", here):

Oeng kämakto ko ne fizayuyä atxkxe, ulte oengal meuniltìrantokxit txìng ko

Note the plural of pizayu, the interclausal conjunction ulte, and the inflected form of oeng (it reverts to its root oe+nga).

I've never seen ko before, but your explanation makes sense to me.

You caught me with an English mistake here; I wrote down ancestor's instead of ancestors', where it would definitely be more appropriate to use the latter. I figured that was a decent way to translate "countryside", as that's definitely not the sort of word the Na'vi would ever have. (They do, after all, live in a forest, not a city.) But yeah...and it just lenits to fizayu without the ay- at the beginning, right.

So the difference between ulte and is that the former is used to connect clauses whereas the latter is used to connect things? I wasn't sure about this, which is probably why my use of ulte and is so inconsistent.

And yeah...oengal...duh!

So no one gets worried, no.
No one will feel fear concerning the two of us.
No one-ERG fear-ACC feel<FUT> (two of us)-about.
Kawtul txoputi ‘ayefu oengteri.

Topic could also be a way to go, and we have txopu si be afraid too.

But Sean, don't get careless.
Sean, don’t not be careful.
Sean, do not not be careful.
Tsan, rä’ä ke tìng nari.

Wrong compound verb: the one you want is nari si. Since Na'vi has negative concord, I honestly don't know what happens with "true" double negatives. How about a simple nari sivi, if you want to play it safe?

Is txopu si something new? I haven't seen that before, and it's not in my dictionary. Then again, with the rate of change we have what with Karyu Pawl sending us more information every day, I'm not surprised.

Yeah, tìng nari was a giant /facepalm on my part. I wasn't sure what to do with the double negative either, so I'll probably use your suggestion here. (It also happens to give the line the same number of syllables as in English, which is always a huge plus when it comes to trying to sing the song.)

I'm sure it'll be fine.
I know that everything will be good.
I know that everything good be<FUT>.
Oe omum futa fra’u sìltsan layu.

With futa, you need a transitive subject (oel). There is also spaw believe.

I love you, I love you, O brother of mine.
I love you, I love you, O brother of mine.
You beloved be me-TOP, you beloved be, VOC I-GEN brother.
Nga yawne lu oer, nga yawne lu, ma oeyä tsmukan.

Note: oer(u) is dative, not topic (which is oeri), but the structure is correct.

I really had no idea what to do with this first one; it seems like such a simple sentence, but it's weird in that the first verb wants to be intransitive and the second one is just the oddball lu.

In the second sentence, am I correct in understanding that oe takes the dative case because the subject nga can be seen as "giving" its quality to an observer? Like...oe is an indirect object?

In the quivering forest, where the shivering dog rests, our good grandfather built a wooden nest.
Our father’s good father lived in the mighty forest, near the sleeping viperwolves.
(The two of us)-GEN father-GEN father ADJ.M-good dwell<PAST> in+forest, close to PLU-viperwolf sleep<IMPF>.
Oengeyä sempuleyä sempul asìltsan kelku sami mina’rìng, lok aynantang herahaw.

The genitive suffix takes the form after a consonant, so it's sempulä, and the adposition "in" is . Lok is a bit of a loose end, but assuming that it is an adposition too, the only other needed change is a participle (verbal adjective): aynantang husahaw sleeping viperwolves.

This one was a pain in the txìm. First of all, I wasn't sure if having two genitives in a row was possible, but as we don't have any words yet for grandparents, that was the only way I could build the word. (Of course, it might turn out that Na'vi has separate terms for mother's father and father's father, but that's something we'll find out in the future.)

Now, considering you pointed this out to me three times, I've gotten the idea that -eyä is not used except on pronouns. Is that correct?

Mi instead of was a typo...good catch though!

Hmm, regarding the participle, I know that in English, the participle form of a verb looks the same as when it is used as a gerund. I'm assuming this is not at all how Na'vi works. (Is that, perhaps, what the sä- prefix on the word sänume is attempting to do?) I haven't used <us> very much yet, so thanks for that.

And the river got frozen, and the home got snowed in.
The river’s water was not moving, and no one could find the home.
River-GEN water not move<IMPF.PAST>, and no one-ERG house-ACC not find<SUBJ>.
Kilvanyä pay ke ramikx, sì kawtul kelkuti ke rivun.

Kilvanä as per above, <arm> in rikx, and then there's ulte rather than again. As for the second phrase:

kawtu ke tsamun kelkut rivun
no-one could find the home

Tsun, being a modal verb, requires the subjunctive in run -- and the accusative suffix can be shortened to -t when the word ends in a vowel.

This makes more sense, using "to be able to" as the main action and "to find" as subjunctive. The corrections you've suggested would then make the sentence appear as: Kilvanä pay ke rarmikx, ulte kawtu ke tsamun kelkut rivun. Very cool.

And the yellow moon glowed bright ‘til the morning light.
The sky’s yellow light was blossoming, but the sun came to us.
Sky-GEN light ADJ.M-yellow blossom<IMPF.PAST>, but sun come<PAST> to (the two of us).
Taweyä atan arim ‘armivong, slä tsawke zama’u ne oeng.

That's tawä, and the word for "blossom" is 'ong -- 'ivong is the optative form as used by Frommer. Also, I'd expect zola'u, or perhaps tsawke wäpolìntxu oengar the sun showed itself to us, and we have a word for "until": vaykrr. (And, of course, we still don't know exactly what atan is...)

Terrible am I child? Even if you don't mind.
O child, I am evil, and I don’t matter to you.
VOC child, I bad be, and I you-TOP not matter.
Ma ‘eveng, oe kawng lu, sì oe ngari ke tsranten.

Ulte again, and here I'd go for dative rather than topic.

Yeah, I still have 'ivong written down in my notes, mostly because 'ong is used that way most often. (Markusì!!!!!)

I took the liberty of assuming atan was a noun, mostly because I couldn't think of any other possible way of representing a moon. Of course, "sky's yellow light" comes across as the Sun much more readily than it does as moon, but...when there's only 1000 words or so to choose from, poetic license becomes important.  ;)

I'm having trouble understanding your use of wäpolìntxu. It looks like w<äp><ol>ìntxu, but what the cluck is <äp>? I've never seen that before.

Wow that was a long post. There really needs to be a +5 karma button, perhaps usable maybe once a week or so, because the amount of help you've given me is staggering. Irayo!

Once I get this all hammered out, I'm definitely going to attempt to play and sing this in Na'vi and post a video. Musically, aside from being in Ab minor (which can be remedied easily be tuning your guitar a half-step flat and playing in A minor), the song is very straightforward.

If anyone else has any suggestions, I'll be more than happy to see them!

Eywa ayngahu,

Kayrìlien

Offline Lance R. Casey

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Re: Song Translation - Blue Ridge Mountains, by Fleet Foxes
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2010, 05:57:43 am »
Definitely kìya...I believe I typed that one before I downloaded the Na'vi keyboard layout, so it was a matter of trying as many Alt+number combinations as it took to find the right one.  ;)
(Another typo: kìyä... :o)

I heard that you missed your connecting flight to the Blue Ridge Mountains, over near Tennessee.
I heard that you will not fly to Tennessee’s blue floating mountains
I hear<PAST> that you not fly<FUT> to Tennessee-GEN floating mountains ADJ.M-blue.
Oe tamìng mikyun futa nga ke tswayon ne Tenesiyä Iknimaya aean.
Here I would employ the perfective: tolìng. Also, another movie line is poru tìng nari look at him, so futa should probably be fì'ur a. However, there is a simpler solution: stawm hear.
Lastly, given the original line, perhaps the proximate past tense fits better in tswon.
Hmm, so using the perfective and stawm rather than tìng mikyun, the first part of the phrase would then be "Oe olstawm fi'ur a..."? And you're right, tswìmon does make more sense in regard to the original line.
I may have confused you a bit here. It is tìng nari which, like the other compound verbs, behaves in an intransitive manner, so you need to use the dative. Stawm, however, does not, so futa (which is a contracted fì'u-t a) would be correct then. Also note that <ol> should go after the initial cluster: stolawm.

Do we have a word for mountains that don't float? I'm not from Tennessee, but I'm fairly certain there's no large unobtanium deposits in the area...
Unfortunately, no.

You're ever welcome with me any time you like.
You may live with me always.
You dwell<SUBJ><LAUD> always with me.
Nga kelku siveiyi frakrr hu oe.
To me this reads as an optative, i.e. "may you always dwell with me". Suggestions (cliticized hu for better pronunciation flow, IMO):

Oel neiew futa nga kelku sivi frakrr oehu
Frakrr oel tayeiung futa nga kelku sivi oehu (tung allow)
So your first suggestion reads something like "I want that you may dwell always with me.", and the second something like "Always I will allow that you may dwell with me."? The second one is more appropriate to the intent of the original line, as Robin (the singer) is not expressly telling his brother (Sean) to come live with him, he's just saying that it's okay if he wants to. Using allow in this case is also a better construction IMO.
Here it is important to note the different functions of the Na'vi subjunctive mood. It can be optative, but it is also used in situations where English would just use the infinitive, like with modal verbs. Thus, the intended meanings are "I want you to dwell with me always" and "I will always allow you to dwell with me" (the latter may not actually require the subjunctive, but I wanted to use it because of the nature of "allow": it points to something which will not necessarily happen). Also note the approbative affect infix <ei> modifying the "wanting" in the first line, and the "allowing" in the second line, establishing the speaker's positive attitude towards the situation.

So the difference between ulte and is that the former is used to connect clauses whereas the latter is used to connect things? I wasn't sure about this, which is probably why my use of ulte and is so inconsistent.
As far as we know, yes, but there is also fte tsivun pivlltxe sì tivìran na ayoeng so that he speak and walk like us (mmm, subjunctive), so the distinction is not so clear-cut. "Interclausal" was my best suggestion as a label.

So no one gets worried, no.
No one will feel fear concerning the two of us.
No one-ERG fear-ACC feel<FUT> (two of us)-about.
Kawtul txoputi ‘ayefu oengteri.
Topic could also be a way to go, and we have txopu si be afraid too.
Is txopu si something new? I haven't seen that before, and it's not in my dictionary. Then again, with the rate of change we have what with Karyu Pawl sending us more information every day, I'm not surprised.
Actually, you may have caught me there. It's from here, but it's not sourced, so it may well be just conjecture.
And, fpi for the sake of also occurs to me.

I'm sure it'll be fine.
I know that everything will be good.
I know that everything good be<FUT>.
Oe omum futa fra’u sìltsan layu.
With futa, you need a transitive subject (oel). There is also spaw believe.

I love you, I love you, O brother of mine.
I love you, I love you, O brother of mine.
You beloved be me-TOP, you beloved be, VOC I-GEN brother.
Nga yawne lu oer, nga yawne lu, ma oeyä tsmukan.
Note: oer(u) is dative, not topic (which is oeri), but the structure is correct.
I really had no idea what to do with this first one; it seems like such a simple sentence, but it's weird in that the first verb wants to be intransitive and the second one is just the oddball lu.

In the second sentence, am I correct in understanding that oe takes the dative case because the subject nga can be seen as "giving" its quality to an observer? Like...oe is an indirect object?
As futa is fì'ut a, which is in the accusative, an ergative subject is required. Literally, the whole thing is: "I know this everything-will-be-good thing", where the subordinator a is used to turn the subordinate clause into an attributive phrase.

As for the second phrase, there need be no physical direction, only a beneficiary relationship: "you are beloved to me", "for me, you are beloved".

Now, considering you pointed this out to me three times, I've gotten the idea that -eyä is not used except on pronouns. Is that correct?
It appears so, yes.

Hmm, regarding the participle, I know that in English, the participle form of a verb looks the same as when it is used as a gerund. I'm assuming this is not at all how Na'vi works. (Is that, perhaps, what the sä- prefix on the word sänume is attempting to do?) I haven't used <us> very much yet, so thanks for that.
The sä- prefix is instrumental in function, but its exact use has not been established. See here. As for the participle, it later occurred to me that seeing as how it functions adjectivally it may require the attributive marker -- or then again it may not for some reason. We know that adjectives derived from nouns do not have to be marked when coming after the noun they modify, since the le- prefix can be regarded as a marker in itself, but on the other hand it is required when the order is reversed: lì'fya leNa'vi vs. leNa'via lì'fya. All in all, I think I'm in favor of the attributive pending further evidence, so then we would have aynantang ahusahaw.

I'm having trouble understanding your use of wäpolìntxu. It looks like w<äp><ol>ìntxu, but what the cluck is <äp>? I've never seen that before.
It's the much longed-for reflexive infix! :)

Once I get this all hammered out, I'm definitely going to attempt to play and sing this in Na'vi and post a video.
Oh, please do! Rutxe! :)

// Lance R. Casey

Offline Kayrìlien

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Re: Song Translation - Blue Ridge Mountains, by Fleet Foxes
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2010, 12:04:46 am »
Definitely kìya...I believe I typed that one before I downloaded the Na'vi keyboard layout, so it was a matter of trying as many Alt+number combinations as it took to find the right one.  ;)
(Another typo: kìyä... :o)

kìyä kìyä kìyä kìyä kìyä kìyä kìyä kìyä kìyä kìyä kìyä

KAY JAY WHY CUE

If I misspell that again, please kill me.  ;)

I heard that you missed your connecting flight to the Blue Ridge Mountains, over near Tennessee.
I heard that you will not fly to Tennessee’s blue floating mountains
I hear<PAST> that you not fly<FUT> to Tennessee-GEN floating mountains ADJ.M-blue.
Oe tamìng mikyun futa nga ke tswayon ne Tenesiyä Iknimaya aean.
Here I would employ the perfective: tolìng. Also, another movie line is poru tìng nari look at him, so futa should probably be fì'ur a. However, there is a simpler solution: stawm hear.
Lastly, given the original line, perhaps the proximate past tense fits better in tswon.
Hmm, so using the perfective and stawm rather than tìng mikyun, the first part of the phrase would then be "Oe olstawm fi'ur a..."? And you're right, tswìmon does make more sense in regard to the original line.
I may have confused you a bit here. It is tìng nari which, like the other compound verbs, behaves in an intransitive manner, so you need to use the dative. Stawm, however, does not, so futa (which is a contracted fì'u-t a) would be correct then. Also note that <ol> should go after the initial cluster: stolawm.

Okay then. All the fi'u fi'ur futa stuff is still confusing to me; I'll have to look at those more carefully again. "Olstawm" was a mistake, I had eyk in my head when I was thinking about it, but that's different b/c it starts with a vowel.

So the difference between ulte and is that the former is used to connect clauses whereas the latter is used to connect things? I wasn't sure about this, which is probably why my use of ulte and is so inconsistent.
As far as we know, yes, but there is also fte tsivun pivlltxe sì tivìran na ayoeng so that he speak and walk like us (mmm, subjunctive), so the distinction is not so clear-cut. "Interclausal" was my best suggestion as a label.

Alright, so it's not just me.

So no one gets worried, no.
No one will feel fear concerning the two of us.
No one-ERG fear-ACC feel<FUT> (two of us)-about.
Kawtul txoputi ‘ayefu oengteri.
Topic could also be a way to go, and we have txopu si be afraid too.
Is txopu si something new? I haven't seen that before, and it's not in my dictionary. Then again, with the rate of change we have what with Karyu Pawl sending us more information every day, I'm not surprised.
Actually, you may have caught me there. It's from here, but it's not sourced, so it may well be just conjecture.
And, fpi for the sake of also occurs to me.

Well, you never know. Like I said, we get so much new information on a daily basis that it's more likely that I'm just out of date than it is that you're wrong.

I love you, I love you, O brother of mine.
I love you, I love you, O brother of mine.
You beloved be me-TOP, you beloved be, VOC I-GEN brother.
Nga yawne lu oer, nga yawne lu, ma oeyä tsmukan.
Note: oer(u) is dative, not topic (which is oeri), but the structure is correct.
I really had no idea what to do with this first one; it seems like such a simple sentence, but it's weird in that the first verb wants to be intransitive and the second one is just the oddball lu.

In the second sentence, am I correct in understanding that oe takes the dative case because the subject nga can be seen as "giving" its quality to an observer? Like...oe is an indirect object?
[/quote]
As futa is fì'ut a, which is in the accusative, an ergative subject is required. Literally, the whole thing is: "I know this everything-will-be-good thing", where the subordinator a is used to turn the subordinate clause into an attributive phrase.

As for the second phrase, there need be no physical direction, only a beneficiary relationship: "you are beloved to me", "for me, you are beloved".
[/quote]

Alright, so it doesn't always have to be a physical relationship. That makes sense, because more of conversation is figurative than literal anyway.

Hmm, regarding the participle, I know that in English, the participle form of a verb looks the same as when it is used as a gerund. I'm assuming this is not at all how Na'vi works. (Is that, perhaps, what the sä- prefix on the word sänume is attempting to do?) I haven't used <us> very much yet, so thanks for that.
The sä- prefix is instrumental in function, but its exact use has not been established. See here. As for the participle, it later occurred to me that seeing as how it functions adjectivally it may require the attributive marker -- or then again it may not for some reason. We know that adjectives derived from nouns do not have to be marked when coming after the noun they modify, since the le- prefix can be regarded as a marker in itself, but on the other hand it is required when the order is reversed: lì'fya leNa'vi vs. leNa'via lì'fya. All in all, I think I'm in favor of the attributive pending further evidence, so then we would have aynantang ahusahaw.

I'm having trouble understanding your use of wäpolìntxu. It looks like w<äp><ol>ìntxu, but what the cluck is <äp>? I've never seen that before.
It's the much longed-for reflexive infix! :)

Oooh...reflexive! So now we have an easy way to um, uh...do things to yourself? N-N-N-Nice!  ;) As far as goes, it'll probably take a while before we have that one answered.

Once I get this all hammered out, I'm definitely going to attempt to play and sing this in Na'vi and post a video.
Oh, please do! Rutxe! :)

Most definitely. I want to make sure I have the grammar (and pronunciation) down before I sully this song with my "excellent" voice.

Thanks again for all the help,

Kayrìlien

 

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