Author Topic: Help translating "My heart will not open until all its love is given away."  (Read 1587 times)

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Offline Aytanvi

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Txe'lan oeyä ke piak s<asy>i vaykrr neto t<am><ei>ìng tseyä tìyawn nìwotx.

This is as far as I have gotten. Please help me?

Offline Ftxavanga Txe′lan

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Very nice try, ma 'eylan! :) Here is how I would translate your sentence:

Txe'lan oeyä ke piak sayi vaykrr oel toleiyìng tseyä tìyawnit nìwotx.

I wrote the latter part as "until I have given all of its love away", because I believe passive constructions such as that of your original sentence are normally avoided when possible. Also, I removed neto since I wasn't sure that word could be used like that in this particular context. :)

I'm not sure it's good though! :D You did a very good job anyways - keep up with the great work. :)

Offline Aytanvi

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Thats actually how I had originally wanted it, I just wasn't sure how to translate it.   :P

Irayo!   :-*

Offline Tirea Aean

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Very nice try, ma 'eylan! :) Here is how I would translate your sentence:

Txe'lan oeyä ke piak ke sayi vaykrr oel toleiìng tseyä tìyawnit nìwotx.

I wrote the latter part as "until I have given all of its love away", because I believe passive constructions such as that of your original sentence are normally avoided when possible. Also, I removed neto since I wasn't sure that word could be used like that in this particular context. :)

I'm not sure it's good though! :D You did a very good job anyways - keep up with the great work. :)


so close. ;) man im gettin slow. constantly ninjad every time. great attempt by you both. nice sentence! :D

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Offline Aytanvi

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would toleiìng be wrong though? It just looks wrong. :P And thank you.

Irayo Tirea :D

Offline Ftxavanga Txe′lan

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Oh great! Thanks for the little correction, ma Tirea! :D

would toleiìng be wrong though? It just looks wrong. :P

Well, I would have believed that such a construction can't work. :o I do find that it looks weird too, and I would think there can't be three vowels one after another like that. As in "I thank you": it can be Irayo seiyi ngaru, but not Irayo seii ngaru. :) An extra y must be added in there, so why not put one between i and ì? It's not the same letter, but I thought the principle is the same. :-[

*awaits for someone to come clarify* :D

Offline Aytanvi

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*awaits for someone to come clarify* :D

I second that! Haha.

Offline Alyara Arati

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From NiaN:
Quote
Language Note #5.6: When two i’s or an i and an ì wind up together due to infixes, no
contraction occurs. Instead, y is inserted between them.
When in doubt I go back to my first learning source.  So, procede with the y putting in. ;)
Learn how to see.  Realize that everything connects to everything else.
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Offline Ftxavanga Txe′lan

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From NiaN:
Quote
Language Note #5.6: When two i’s or an i and an ì wind up together due to infixes, no
contraction occurs. Instead, y is inserted between them.
When in doubt I go back to my first learning source.  So, procede with the y putting in. ;)

Oh, I didn't think there would be anything on the matter in NiaN! hihi Thanks a lot, ma Alyara, it's all clear now. :)

Offline Tirea Aean

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From NiaN:
Quote
Language Note #5.6: When two i’s or an i and an ì wind up together due to infixes, no
contraction occurs. Instead, y is inserted between them.
When in doubt I go back to my first learning source.  So, procede with the y putting in. ;)

SERIOUSLY? where did THAT come from? I knew about ii --> iyi because it is obviously canon etc... but iì --> iyì ??? I want canonical reference for that. I am now in full support of wm.annis's "Horen Lì'fyayä leNa'vi" over NiaN...

EDIT:

Quote from: Horen Lì'fyayä leNa'vi 2.3.3
2.3.3. Affect Infix Epenthesis. When the positive affect infix ‹ei› is followed
by the vowel i or ì a y is inserted, seiyi < *s‹ei›i, veykrreiyìn < *veykrr‹ei›ìn.

Fascinating.

DOUBLE EDIT:

also, what's wrong with 3 vowels in a row? meoauniaea. there are 4 vowels in a row there and then 4 more in a row.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2011, 09:55:21 pm by Tirea Aean »

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Offline Alyara Arati

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also, what's wrong with 3 vowels in a row? meoauniaea. there are 4 vowels in a row there and then 4 more in a row.
Nothing's wrong with 3 vowels in a row that I know of, so long as they aren't the same (or "similar enough"), but there's the classic question of a-apxa-a with 2 a's, or me-eylan with e and ey.
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Offline Tirea Aean

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also, what's wrong with 3 vowels in a row? meoauniaea. there are 4 vowels in a row there and then 4 more in a row.
Nothing's wrong with 3 vowels in a row that I know of, so long as they aren't the same (or "similar enough"), but there's the classic question of a-apxa-a with 2 a's, or me-eylan with e and ey.

vowel contraction. In my understanding, under normal coditions, consecutive vowel doubles merge into one. and apparently, it happenss with such combos as aaw, aay, eew, and eey too.

Apparently, when consecutive vowel doubles occur due to suffixes, a hyphen is used, and when it occurs due to infixing a verb, a y is inserted? As far as I know, this y only happens between ii and iì, mainly with <ei> coming before i or ì... For some reason I never know that ì was included in the eii->eiyi rule.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2011, 10:44:00 pm by Tirea Aean »

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Offline Ftxavanga Txe′lan

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also, what's wrong with 3 vowels in a row? meoauniaea. there are 4 vowels in a row there and then 4 more in a row.
Nothing's wrong with 3 vowels in a row that I know of, so long as they aren't the same (or "similar enough"), but there's the classic question of a-apxa-a with 2 a's, or me-eylan with e and ey.

True. ;) My bad.

Well, for my part I had doubts about because I thought it wasn't really easy pronounceable, like eoau or iaea are, for instance. Is that a good indicator? :P

Offline Sireayä mokri

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Txe'lan oeyä ke piak ke sayi vaykrr oel toleiìng tseyä tìyawnit nìwotx.

I think topic would be preferred over genitive here due to inalienable possession.

And again we run into that "adj.+si" transitivity issue, so I'd vote for piak ke slayu.
When the mirror speaks, the reflection lies.

Offline Tirea Aean

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Txe'lan oeyä ke piak ke sayi vaykrr oel toleiìng tseyä tìyawnit nìwotx.

I think topic would be preferred over genitive here due to inalienable possession.

And again we run into that "adj.+si" transitivity issue, so I'd vote for piak ke slayu.

hmmm okay. though the gen is not necessarily wrong. I would have written Oeri txe'lan originally but txe'lan oeyä isn't necessarily wrong so I didn't bother to correct it.

I can agree with piak ke slayu. I am still curious about this whole "semantic transitivity of __ si verbs" thing.

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Offline Sireayä mokri

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hmmm okay. though the gen is not necessarily wrong. I would have written Oeri txe'lan originally but txe'lan oeyä isn't necessarily wrong so I didn't bother to correct it.

I recall Frommer saying that while topic is unnecessary, it is definitely more common way to say that.
When the mirror speaks, the reflection lies.

Offline Tirea Aean

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hmmm okay. though the gen is not necessarily wrong. I would have written Oeri txe'lan originally but txe'lan oeyä isn't necessarily wrong so I didn't bother to correct it.

I recall Frommer saying that while topic is unnecessary, it is definitely more common way to say that.

sure. because he did. I didn't say using the topic is wrong. it is more common, but the option is still there if the author has a reason to choose gen over top or top over gen.

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