Help translating "My heart will not open until all its love is given away."

Started by Aytanvi, August 21, 2011, 07:14:28 PM

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Aytanvi

Txe'lan oeyä ke piak s<asy>i vaykrr neto t<am><ei>ìng tseyä tìyawn nìwotx.

This is as far as I have gotten. Please help me?

Ftxavanga Txe′lan

Very nice try, ma 'eylan! :) Here is how I would translate your sentence:

Txe'lan oeyä ke piak sayi vaykrr oel toleiyìng tseyä tìyawnit nìwotx.

I wrote the latter part as "until I have given all of its love away", because I believe passive constructions such as that of your original sentence are normally avoided when possible. Also, I removed neto since I wasn't sure that word could be used like that in this particular context. :)

I'm not sure it's good though! :D You did a very good job anyways - keep up with the great work. :)

Aytanvi

Thats actually how I had originally wanted it, I just wasn't sure how to translate it.   :P

Irayo!   :-*

Tirea Aean

Quote from: Ftxavanga Txe′lan on August 21, 2011, 07:28:07 PM
Very nice try, ma 'eylan! :) Here is how I would translate your sentence:

Txe'lan oeyä ke piak ke sayi vaykrr oel toleiìng tseyä tìyawnit nìwotx.

I wrote the latter part as "until I have given all of its love away", because I believe passive constructions such as that of your original sentence are normally avoided when possible. Also, I removed neto since I wasn't sure that word could be used like that in this particular context. :)

I'm not sure it's good though! :D You did a very good job anyways - keep up with the great work. :)


so close. ;) man im gettin slow. constantly ninjad every time. great attempt by you both. nice sentence! :D

Aytanvi

would toleiìng be wrong though? It just looks wrong. :P And thank you.

Irayo Tirea :D

Ftxavanga Txe′lan

Oh great! Thanks for the little correction, ma Tirea! :D

Quote from: Aytanvi on August 21, 2011, 08:18:46 PM
would toleiìng be wrong though? It just looks wrong. :P

Well, I would have believed that such a construction can't work. :o I do find that it looks weird too, and I would think there can't be three vowels one after another like that. As in "I thank you": it can be Irayo seiyi ngaru, but not Irayo seii ngaru. :) An extra y must be added in there, so why not put one between i and ì? It's not the same letter, but I thought the principle is the same. :-[

*awaits for someone to come clarify* :D


Alyara Arati

From NiaN:
QuoteLanguage Note #5.6: When two i's or an i and an ì wind up together due to infixes, no
contraction occurs. Instead, y is inserted between them.
When in doubt I go back to my first learning source.  So, procede with the y putting in. ;)
Learn how to see.  Realize that everything connects to everything else.
~ Leonardo da Vinci

Ftxavanga Txe′lan

Quote from: Alyara Arati on August 21, 2011, 09:16:10 PM
From NiaN:
QuoteLanguage Note #5.6: When two i's or an i and an ì wind up together due to infixes, no
contraction occurs. Instead, y is inserted between them.
When in doubt I go back to my first learning source.  So, procede with the y putting in. ;)

Oh, I didn't think there would be anything on the matter in NiaN! hihi Thanks a lot, ma Alyara, it's all clear now. :)

Tirea Aean

Quote from: Alyara Arati on August 21, 2011, 09:16:10 PM
From NiaN:
QuoteLanguage Note #5.6: When two i's or an i and an ì wind up together due to infixes, no
contraction occurs. Instead, y is inserted between them.
When in doubt I go back to my first learning source.  So, procede with the y putting in. ;)

SERIOUSLY? where did THAT come from? I knew about ii --> iyi because it is obviously canon etc... but iì --> iyì ??? I want canonical reference for that. I am now in full support of wm.annis's "Horen Lì'fyayä leNa'vi" over NiaN...

EDIT:

Quote from: Horen Lì'fyayä leNa'vi 2.3.3
2.3.3. Affect Infix Epenthesis. When the positive affect infix ‹ei› is followed
by the vowel i or ì a y is inserted, seiyi < *s‹ei›i, veykrreiyìn < *veykrr‹ei›ìn.

Fascinating.

DOUBLE EDIT:

also, what's wrong with 3 vowels in a row? meoauniaea. there are 4 vowels in a row there and then 4 more in a row.

Alyara Arati

Quote from: Tirea Aean on August 21, 2011, 09:49:23 PM
also, what's wrong with 3 vowels in a row? meoauniaea. there are 4 vowels in a row there and then 4 more in a row.
Nothing's wrong with 3 vowels in a row that I know of, so long as they aren't the same (or "similar enough"), but there's the classic question of a-apxa-a with 2 a's, or me-eylan with e and ey.
Learn how to see.  Realize that everything connects to everything else.
~ Leonardo da Vinci

Tirea Aean

Quote from: Alyara Arati on August 21, 2011, 10:16:30 PM
Quote from: Tirea Aean on August 21, 2011, 09:49:23 PM
also, what's wrong with 3 vowels in a row? meoauniaea. there are 4 vowels in a row there and then 4 more in a row.
Nothing's wrong with 3 vowels in a row that I know of, so long as they aren't the same (or "similar enough"), but there's the classic question of a-apxa-a with 2 a's, or me-eylan with e and ey.

vowel contraction. In my understanding, under normal coditions, consecutive vowel doubles merge into one. and apparently, it happenss with such combos as aaw, aay, eew, and eey too.

Apparently, when consecutive vowel doubles occur due to suffixes, a hyphen is used, and when it occurs due to infixing a verb, a y is inserted? As far as I know, this y only happens between ii and iì, mainly with <ei> coming before i or ì... For some reason I never know that ì was included in the eii->eiyi rule.

Ftxavanga Txe′lan

Quote from: Alyara Arati on August 21, 2011, 10:16:30 PM
Quote from: Tirea Aean on August 21, 2011, 09:49:23 PM
also, what's wrong with 3 vowels in a row? meoauniaea. there are 4 vowels in a row there and then 4 more in a row.
Nothing's wrong with 3 vowels in a row that I know of, so long as they aren't the same (or "similar enough"), but there's the classic question of a-apxa-a with 2 a's, or me-eylan with e and ey.

True. ;) My bad.

Well, for my part I had doubts about because I thought it wasn't really easy pronounceable, like eoau or iaea are, for instance. Is that a good indicator? :P

Sireayä mokri

Quote from: Tirea Aean on August 21, 2011, 07:55:09 PM
Quote from: Ftxavanga Txe′lan on August 21, 2011, 07:28:07 PM
Txe'lan oeyä ke piak ke sayi vaykrr oel toleiìng tseyä tìyawnit nìwotx.

I think topic would be preferred over genitive here due to inalienable possession.

And again we run into that "adj.+si" transitivity issue, so I'd vote for piak ke slayu.
When the mirror speaks, the reflection lies.

Tirea Aean

Quote from: Sireayä mokri on August 22, 2011, 08:20:54 AM
Quote from: Tirea Aean on August 21, 2011, 07:55:09 PM
Quote from: Ftxavanga Txe′lan on August 21, 2011, 07:28:07 PM
Txe'lan oeyä ke piak ke sayi vaykrr oel toleiìng tseyä tìyawnit nìwotx.

I think topic would be preferred over genitive here due to inalienable possession.

And again we run into that "adj.+si" transitivity issue, so I'd vote for piak ke slayu.

hmmm okay. though the gen is not necessarily wrong. I would have written Oeri txe'lan originally but txe'lan oeyä isn't necessarily wrong so I didn't bother to correct it.

I can agree with piak ke slayu. I am still curious about this whole "semantic transitivity of __ si verbs" thing.

Sireayä mokri

Quote from: Tirea Aean on August 22, 2011, 09:06:03 AM
hmmm okay. though the gen is not necessarily wrong. I would have written Oeri txe'lan originally but txe'lan oeyä isn't necessarily wrong so I didn't bother to correct it.

I recall Frommer saying that while topic is unnecessary, it is definitely more common way to say that.
When the mirror speaks, the reflection lies.

Tirea Aean

Quote from: Sireayä mokri on August 22, 2011, 09:09:56 AM
Quote from: Tirea Aean on August 22, 2011, 09:06:03 AM
hmmm okay. though the gen is not necessarily wrong. I would have written Oeri txe'lan originally but txe'lan oeyä isn't necessarily wrong so I didn't bother to correct it.

I recall Frommer saying that while topic is unnecessary, it is definitely more common way to say that.

sure. because he did. I didn't say using the topic is wrong. it is more common, but the option is still there if the author has a reason to choose gen over top or top over gen.