How does this sound?

Started by Plltxeyu, March 19, 2010, 05:30:32 AM

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Plltxeyu

A few years ago (BA - Before Avatar) I came up with a constitution for a medival role-playing group. Since it was medieval and in English it wasn't so easy to translate. I had trouble with the "of"s that I used since there really isn't an "of" in Na'vi. The name of the Kingdom (clan) was Forest Haven.

Since this is still going to be a constitution, I would like to try to write this is formally as possible.
Will they way I capitalized the names work? (I tried to capitalize the names and as well as the adpositions.
I would appreciate any help that can be given. Thanks.




AyKoren TaOlo' TaNa'rìng Zngtseng
Ay-Koren Ta-Olo' Ta-Na'rìng Zngtseng

The Constitution of the Clan of Forest Haven

Fìtrr, ayoeng na'vi TaNa'rìng Zongtseng, 'awstengyem ulte ngop olo' flayä.
Fì-trr, ayoeng na'vi Ta-Na'rìng Zongtseng, 'awstengyem ulte ngop olo' fl<ay>ä.

On this day, we the people of Forest Haven  unite and form a [clan] that shall succeed.

MìOlo' aset, mune ayvul layu.
Mì-Olo' aset, mune ay-vul l<ay>u.

In this new clan, two branches shall exist. (is there a better word for branches as in branches of gov't?)

Pätsì Nawmyuyä sì Korena Pongu a layu txula ayOlo'eyktan TaNa'rìng Zongtseng.
Pätsì Nawmyuyä sì Korena Pongu a l<ay>u txula ay-Olo'eyktan Ta-Na'rìng Zongtseng.

The Office of the Noble (which is like the king) and the legislating body which is made up of [clan chiefs] of Forest Haven. (is there a better word for "made up of?")

Unil Akawng

#1
Kaltxì, ma Plltxeyu! Fpivìl ko futa fìfya oe tsun ngaru srung sivi.

Quote from: Plltxeyu on March 19, 2010, 05:30:32 AM
I had trouble with the "of"s that I used since there really isn't an "of" in Na'vi. The name of the Kingdom (clan) was Forest Haven.
I think genitive will serve you better then ta to obtain "of". So, for "Forest Heaven" you will need either genitive (Na'ring Zontsengyä = forest of the haven) or particle a (Na'ring a Zontseng = forest [which is] haven) to join these two words together.

Quote from: Plltxeyu on March 19, 2010, 05:30:32 AM
AyKoren TaOlo' TaNa'rìng Zngtseng
Ay-Koren Ta-Olo' Ta-Na'rìng Zngtseng
The Constitution of the Clan of Forest Haven
Here I'd suggest Ayhoren olo'yä Na'ringyä a Zongtseng, for the reason given above.

Quote from: Plltxeyu on March 19, 2010, 05:30:32 AM
Fìtrr, ayoeng na'vi TaNa'rìng Zongtseng, 'awstengyem ulte ngop olo' flayä.
Fì-trr, ayoeng na'vi Ta-Na'rìng Zongtseng, 'awstengyem ulte ngop olo' fl<ay>ä.

On this day, we the people of Forest Haven  unite and form a [clan] that shall succeed.
Here:
- something is needed to establish connection between ayoeng and Na'vi;
- 'awstengyem is transitive (that is, its subject actively joins something else together), so a reflexive infix <äp> will be necessary (because they join themselves together to form a tribe);
- again, to connect olo' to flayä, a is required;
- in the "create a clan" clause, accusative marking on olo' is needed. 

Hence we arrive at: Fìtrr, ayoeng a Na'vi Na'rìngyä a Zongtseng, 'awstäpengyem 'awstengyäpem ulte ngop olo'it a flayä.
EDIT: The new version of Taronyu's vocabulary necessitates another position for the infix.

Quote from: Plltxeyu on March 19, 2010, 05:30:32 AM
MìOlo' aset, mune ayvul layu.
Mì-Olo' aset, mune ay-vul l<ay>u.

In this new clan, two branches shall exist. (is there a better word for branches as in branches of gov't?)
My solution: fìolo' amip, vul amune layu.

Quote from: Plltxeyu on March 19, 2010, 05:30:32 AM
Pätsì Nawmyuyä sì Korena Pongu a layu txula ayOlo'eyktan TaNa'rìng Zongtseng.
Pätsì Nawmyuyä sì Korena Pongu a l<ay>u txula ay-Olo'eyktan Ta-Na'rìng Zongtseng.

The Office of the Noble (which is like the king) and the legislating body which is made up of [clan chiefs] of Forest Haven. (is there a better word for "made up of?")

Here I doubt *Nawmyu will work, as -yu is used to denote a person, who specialises in a verb. Perhaps *Nawmtu will serve you better. For "legislating body" perhaps Pongu a *Horentìng ("council which gives laws") or Pongu *Ahorentusìng is worth a try.

As for "which is made up of", the best way to express it that I can think of, is:
Pätsì Nawmtuyä sì Pongu *Ahorentusìng a tseyä ayhapxìtu ayOlo'eyktan Na'rìngyä a Zongtseng layu.

Sìlpey oe tsnì fì'u tsìyun ngaru srung sivi!

P.S. While it has nothing to do with the grammar, I'd still like to ask: are you sure that nobility (in a medieval sence) is a good concept for a tribe modelled after Na'vi? While positions of olo'eyktan and tsahìk seem to be hereditary to an extent, I don't think the Na'vi tribes have a class of nobility. Or is "noble" here more of a honorific for the tribe chief?
Tukruhu ne ayoeng zola'u a fkori tukrufa tìyerkup! - Александр Невский
На'ви-русский словарь v.2.09 для jMemorize

Plltxeyu

Irayo! All of that was very helpful. As I understand you words, the following are my view of the corrections. For the name Forest Haven, I decided on
Quote from: Unil Akawng on March 19, 2010, 06:34:24 AM
particle a (Na'ring a Zontseng = forest [which is] haven) to join these two words together.




Ayhoren Olo'yä Na'rìng a Zongtseng
The Constitution of the Clan of Forest Haven
Fìtrr, ayoeng a Na'vi Na'rìng a Zontseng, 'awstäpengyem ulte ngop olo'it a flayä
On this day, we the people of Forest Haven  unite and form a [clan] that shall succeed.
Mì fìolo' amip, vul amune layu.
In this new clan, two branches shall exist.
Pätsì Nawmtuyä sì Pongu Ahorengusop a tseyä ayhapxìtu ayOlo'eyktan Na'rìng a Zontseng layu.
The Office of the Noble (which is like the king) and the legislating body which is made up of [clan chiefs] of Forest Haven.




I have continued my translation and, with your previous edits in mind, have written the part of the constitution declaring the privilages of the Noble...

Nawntu lu eyktan Na'rìng a Zongtseng.
Nawntu lu eyktan Na'rìng a Zongtseng.
The Noble is the leader of Forest Haven.

AyTìtxur useykyä Nawntuyä lu ätxäle si säfpìl a tsam nePongu Ahorengusop,
Ay-Tìtxur <us>eyk-yä Nawntu-yä lu ätxäle si säfpìl a tsam ne-Pongu Ahoren-ng<us>opä,
The privilages of the Noble are to propose the subject of war to the legislature,

'eko nulkrr ayolo' akawng,
'eko nulkrr ay-olo' akawng,
lay seige to opposing tribes,

teswotìng fpom nespe'etuay,
teswotìng fpom ne-spe'etu-ay,
parden charged criminals,

ätxäle si ayhoren TaPongu Ahorengusop,
ätxäle si ay-horen Ta-Pongu Ahoren-ng<us>opä,
propose laws to the legislature,

tspang ayhoren leyku faPongu Ahorengusop,
tspang ay-horen l<eyk>u fa-Pongu Ahoren-ng<us>opä,
veto laws passed by the legislature,

syaw ayultxra Pongu Ahorengusopä,
syaw ay-ultxra Pongu Ahoren-ng<us>opä,
call meetings of the legislature,

syaw ayftxozä,
syaw ay-ftxozä,
schedule holidays,

rawke Na'vi Na'rìng a Zongtseng,
rawke Na'vi Na'rìng a Zongtseng,
command for the defenses to be armed,




I will be continuing this soon and I am looking for a good phrase or word for n. election and v. elect
my thoughts were
v. elect = Pe'un fapongu (to decide by the group)
n. election = Tìpe'un Ponguyä (a decision by the group)

In answer to your final question, Forest Haven is more a medieval community where I am trying to tie in Na'vi, as opposed to a na'vi community with medieval values. I understand entirely what you mean though.
Irayo!

Plltxeyu

Kaltxì ma eylan,
I know that it was a while ago that I posted my new translation in the post above, but does anyone have any edits on it? I am still trying to get the hang of how to write in Na'vi so any input would be appreciated.

Irayo,
Plltxeyu

Mithcoriel

I'm not that experienced at Na'vi, but I can give it a shot:

Quotemune ayvul = two branches

Unil Akawng pretty much solved that with vul amune, but otherwise, remember Na'vi has a dual and a trial form. So if it's two, I think you should use the dual form, not the plural. Might wanna look that up.

QuoteAyTìtxur = Strengths

Careful, unless I'm mistaken, that word is subject to lenition too --> Aysìtxur

Quotesyaw ayultxra = call meetings

I'm quite sure "syaw" means call in the sense of shout. I don't think you can translate that idiom literally. I mean what you mean here is "gather meetings" / "arrange meetings" or the like, right? So you might have to find a better word for that. Hm, maybe just "si" (Could "ultxra si" mean "have a meeting"? Or else eyk=lead)
Oh yeah, and ayultxra probably needs an accusative ending. So that would be ayultxrati I think.
Ayoe lu aysamsiyu a plltxe "Ni" !
Aytìhawnu ayli'uyä aswok: "Ni", "Peng", si "Niiiew-wom" !

Feiane

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