Sentence for Dissection

Started by AuLekye'ung, February 07, 2010, 11:09:56 PM

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Lance R. Casey

Quote from: Keye'unga Au on February 12, 2010, 03:08:51 PM
Quote
Oel tse'a fì'ut a oeru wìntxu ngal
I see this "you-show-me" thing
I see this thing that you show me

Why is the "I" in the second part (oeru wìntxu ngal) not accusative?

Aren't "see" and "show" transitive verbs?

Yes, but it is the thing being shown that takes the accusative. Here "you" show something to "me", which is dative. The direct object (accusative) is understood from the preceding clause. Compare with this line from Frommer's letter:

Fpole' ayngal oer fìtxan nìftxavang a 'upxaret stolawm oel
I have heard the message you have sent me so passionately

Here the main clause is 'upxaret stolawm oel I have heard the message, and fpole' ayngal oer is "you have sent [it] to me", with an implicit object (note that aynga is in the ergative).

// Lance R. Casey

AuLekye'ung

Ahhh, I think I understand now.

So,

Oel yolom ikranit a ngal tspolang fpi oer.
I ate the ikran that you killed for me.

Is that correct?
Txo *fìzìsìst*it oel ke lu, kxawm oel tutet lepamtseo lu.  Oe pxìm fpìl nìpamtseo, oel rey letrra ayunil oeyä nìpamtseo.

- Älpert Aynstayn

wm.annis

Quote from: Keye'unga Au on February 12, 2010, 03:42:47 PMOel yolom ikranit a ngal tspolang fpi oer.
I ate the ikran that you killed for me.

Is that correct?

With fpi you do not need the dative.  So, just fpi oe.

AuLekye'ung

Quote from: wm.annis on February 12, 2010, 04:26:59 PM
Quote from: Keye'unga Au on February 12, 2010, 03:42:47 PMOel yolom ikranit a ngal tspolang fpi oer.
I ate the ikran that you killed for me.

Is that correct?

With fpi you do not need the dative.  So, just fpi oe.

Ah, thank you.  That makes sense, now that I think of it.  The rest is correct?
Txo *fìzìsìst*it oel ke lu, kxawm oel tutet lepamtseo lu.  Oe pxìm fpìl nìpamtseo, oel rey letrra ayunil oeyä nìpamtseo.

- Älpert Aynstayn

Kì'eyawn

Quote from: Lance R. Casey on February 12, 2010, 10:58:51 AM
Quote from: tigermind on February 12, 2010, 08:30:51 AM
Wow, i'm sorry; maybe i haven't been following this thread closely enough, but i just got lost.  So, when would you use just fì'ut instead of fì'ut a (futa)?

When there is no following subordinate clause that defines fì'u:

Oel tse'a fì'ut
I see this thing

Oel tse'a fì'ut a oeru wìntxu ngal
I see this "you-show-me" thing
I see this thing that you show me

Oel tse'a futa ngal yerom yerikit
I see this "you're-eating-a-hexapede" thing
I see that you're eating a hexapede

In the latter example, fì'u is basically just a dummy that anchors the subordinate clause.

Ah, okay.  I was making that out to be harder than it actually is.  Irayo for your explanation, ma tsmukan.  Eywa ngahu.
eo Eywa oe 'ia

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