Author Topic: Impersonal Pronouns  (Read 967 times)

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Offline ianonavy

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Impersonal Pronouns
« on: January 21, 2010, 06:04:24 pm »
I can't find it anywhere except in the dictionary part of the Learn Na'vi Pocket Guide.

I want to say, "How do you say _____ in Na'vi?" with the word "you" meaning general people. It's the same as the «se» in Spanish «¿Cómo se dice _____ en español?».

So far, I've got:

Fyape 'awpol plltxe [_____]-t(i)/it nìNa'vi?
How one.individual-ERG speak [_____]-ACC ADV-Na'vi?
How does one say ______ in Navi?

I used the construct nì-Na'vi from the famous corpus phrase:
Tsun oe ngahu nìNa'vi pivängkxo a fi'u oeru prrte' lu.

What do you guys think?

If I just wasted my time, and there is already a phrase for this then... please tell me.

Offline roger

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Re: Impersonal Pronouns
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2010, 06:06:46 pm »
with fko "one".

Remember Norm's line when he meets Grace,

Zéne fko nivúme nìtxán "There is much to learn", lit. "One must learn much".

So I'd guess "how do you say X in Na'vi" might be s.t. like,

Fko plltxe san X nìNa'vi fyape?

Or maybe X sìk nìNa'vi plltxe fxo fyape?
« Last Edit: January 21, 2010, 06:16:11 pm by roger »

Offline ianonavy

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Re: Impersonal Pronouns
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2010, 06:10:25 pm »
with fko "one"

But, isn't fko and adjective?

Offline omängum fra'uti

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Re: Impersonal Pronouns
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2010, 06:10:54 pm »
What about...

Pelì'u leNa'vi lu _______
What's the Na'vi word _______

It seems lacking though...  In English I'd want to say "word for ____", but I don't think fpi would work there.  Maybe something with ral...  Pelì'u leNa'vi a ral lu _____
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
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Offline ianonavy

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Re: Impersonal Pronouns
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2010, 06:14:13 pm »
I guess that works for single words, but would it apply to whole sentences and/or phrases?

Offline roger

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Re: Impersonal Pronouns
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2010, 06:17:36 pm »
with fko "one"

But, isn't fko and adjective?
AFAIK it's a pronoun. The SG translates it as "one", and that fits the dialogue in the film.

Why would you think it's an adjective?

              —Ah, I see. The Pocket Guide. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason to the parts of speech found in there. Use Taronyu's dictionary if you want to know what is actually known about Na'vi words. He clearly marks with his initial everything he guessed at.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2010, 06:33:38 pm by roger »

Offline roger

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Re: Impersonal Pronouns
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2010, 06:22:08 pm »
I guess that works for single words, but would it apply to whole sentences and/or phrases?
If you want to be safe, you could say,

Pefya (or maybe peu?) lu lì’fya leNa’vi fpi san X, but the first constructions I gave sound better to me. (Not that that's saying much!)

BTW, I think fpi probably works just fine. I think the reason it's translated as "for the sake of" is that the English word "for" is so broad as to be almost useless as a translation, and they don't want you saying fpi every time you'd say "for" in English. But it's a simple pronoun, so IMO not likely to be as restricted as "for the sake of" either: just "for" when used w that general range of meaning.

But I think it might actually be safer to use fko than fpi, just in case.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2010, 06:28:30 pm by roger »

Offline Kiliyä

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Re: Impersonal Pronouns
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2010, 11:32:18 pm »
"Pefya nìNa'vi plltxe ngal fì'ut "_____________" ?

Tsafya nìNa'vi plltxe oel tsa'ut...  8)
Peu sa'nokyä ayoengyä?  Pefya ayoeng poeru kìte'e sayi?
Pefya ayoengìl poeti hayawnu, na poel ayoengit hawnu?

What of our mother?  How shall we serve her?  How shall we protect her as she protects us?

Offline suomichris

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Re: Impersonal Pronouns
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2010, 12:02:01 am »
with fko "one".

Remember Norm's line when he meets Grace,

Zéne fko nivúme nìtxán "There is much to learn", lit. "One must learn much".

So I'd guess "how do you say X in Na'vi" might be s.t. like,

Fko plltxe san X nìNa'vi fyape?
I'm with roger on this one!

I would probably change one thing in his phrasing, though.  From our one example, it looks like "san" introduces a quoted phrase, so I might put it at the end, to avoid saying," How do you say "dog in Na'vi" ?" or something like that.  This assumes we need the "san" particle here, which we might not.

Fko plltxe nìNa'vi fyape san X?

This is also a bit weird since it looks like <plltxe> is intransitive....  Hrm...  Actually, maybe the "san" is a good way of avoiding that... :)

Offline roger

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Re: Impersonal Pronouns
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2010, 12:49:47 am »
Wow, Pa'li was on a roll tonight! (Sorry, "Paul". I just enjoy saying nìyey ta meseyri pa'liyä, and pa'li actually sounds a bit like "Paul"!)

He seemed fine with what I proposed. Or at least he didn't correct it. But he did say,

Quote
There's an easier and more concise way:

X nìNa'vi slu 'upe / peu ?

It's an example of a neat structure I adapted from Persian:

X be-faarsi chi mishe? X in-Persian what becomes?

Figured there's gotta be Persian and Malay influences in there somewhere.

(I assume the lack of glottal stop in 'upe is a typo.) [confirmed, and of course either 'upe or peu would work]
« Last Edit: January 22, 2010, 03:49:08 am by roger »

Offline suomichris

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Re: Impersonal Pronouns
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2010, 12:53:55 am »
Wow, Pa'li was on a role tonight! (Sorry, Paul. I just enjoy saying nìyey ta meseyri pa'liyä, and pa'li actually sounds a bit like "Paul"!)

He seemed fine with what I proposed. Or at least he didn't correct it. But he did say,

Quote
There's an easier and more concise way:

X nìNa'vi slu upe?

It's an example of a neat structure I adapted from Persian:

X be-faarsi chi mishe? X in-Persian what becomes?

Figured there's gotta be Persian and Malay influences in there somewhere.
Way cooler than what we cooked up!  Now I'm starting to wonder about some verb prefixes and what not..... Hrm....

 

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