Author Topic: Na'vi practice thread  (Read 13694 times)

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Offline Ftiafpi

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Re: Na'vi practice thread
« Reply #200 on: July 23, 2011, 02:56:25 am »
so a tree next to me would be "fiutral" and a tree far away would be "tsautral" then, or am I wrong? :-\
indicates "this" and tsa indicates "that" but neither imply any location that I'm aware of.

Offline Tswusayona Tsamsiyu

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Re: Na'vi practice thread
« Reply #201 on: July 23, 2011, 03:22:25 am »
just use those two prefixes like you use this, that in English or in German.
Nivume Na'vit, fpivìl nìNa'vi, kivame na Na'vi.....
oer fko syaw tswusayona tsamsiyu

Offline Sngäiyu

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Re: Na'vi practice thread
« Reply #202 on: August 01, 2011, 07:40:41 am »
ah ok i thought it would be more difficult how to use it ;D  ands when do i use "fwa" or "futa"?

Offline Ftxavanga Txe′lan

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Re: Na'vi practice thread
« Reply #203 on: August 01, 2011, 08:17:01 am »
I believe fwa is with intransitive verbs, and futa is with transitive verbs. :)

Offline Sireayä mokri

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Re: Na'vi practice thread
« Reply #204 on: August 01, 2011, 08:31:51 am »
Fwa (alu fì'u+a) is used as a subject — lam oer fwa ngaru tìyawr - lit. "it seems to me that you're right."

Futa (alu fì'u+t+a) is used as a direct object (of transitive verbs) — tse'a oel futa nga teraron - "I see that you're hunting."
When the mirror speaks, the reflection lies.

Offline Ekirä

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Re: Na'vi practice thread
« Reply #205 on: August 01, 2011, 08:35:08 am »
ah ok i thought it would be more difficult how to use it ;D  ands when do i use "fwa" or "futa"?

Fwa is fì'u a and futa is fì'ut a.

So you'd use fwa as "that" intransitively, and futa is "that" when "that" takes the patientive.

Txantsan FWA tsun nga tivok fìtsengit > It's great that you can be here

Tslam oel FUTA nga ke tsun pivlltxe > I understand that you can't speak

Also, just like futa there's fula which is the same but with the agentive suffix, and furia which is the same but with the topical. ;)

EDIT: ninja'd. :P

Offline Sngäiyu

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Re: Na'vi practice thread
« Reply #206 on: August 03, 2011, 07:27:53 am »
aah ok so "i think that you can speak Na'vi good" would be "oe fpil futa nga tsun plltxe siltsan li'fyati Na'viyä" because "think" is transitive or am i wrong? ???

Offline Kemaweyan

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Re: Na'vi practice thread
« Reply #207 on: August 03, 2011, 07:43:31 am »
Right, fpìl is transitive. But it means that you should use agentive too:

  Oel fpìl futa ...

Also in modal constructions use infix -iv- in controlled verb, here it's a verb plltxe:

  Oel fpìl futa nga tsun pivlltxe ...

And though the verb plltxe is transitive, we don't use agentive with the subject nga, because there is a modal construction. Besides to say in Na'vi "speak language" we use the verb plltxe and adverb created from name of the language. For example: plltxe nìNa'vi - speak Na'vi, plltxe nì'Ìnglìsì - speak English. Also "good" here would be adverb, because you describe an action "to speak", not a thing. So use adverb nìltsan. Then full sentence would be

  Oel fpìl futa nga tsun pivlltxe nìNa'vi nìltsan.
  I think that you can speak Na'vi good.
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Offline Sngäiyu

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Re: Na'vi practice thread
« Reply #208 on: August 04, 2011, 01:07:12 pm »
it seems i have to learn much more till i can speak Na'vi really good... :D so here's a second try:
"oel tse'a futa ngal tsun tswivayon ikranit niwin" or is this wrong again? :D

Offline Kemaweyan

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Re: Na'vi practice thread
« Reply #209 on: August 04, 2011, 01:25:01 pm »
We don't use agentive with modal constructions (there is one exception when agentive is possible, but that's completely correct without agentive too), so *ngal tsun tswivayon is incorrect - it should be nga tsun tswivayon.

Also tswayon is intransitive and you can't use patientive there. With ikran use adposition fa or hu (I think hu is better):

  oel tse'a futa nga tsun tswivayon hu ikran nìwin
  I see that you can fly with ikran fast.
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Offline Tswusayona Tsamsiyu

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Re: Na'vi practice thread
« Reply #210 on: August 04, 2011, 01:28:53 pm »
the reason why we don't use the agentive in modal constructions, is because the subject (nga in your sentence) is not doing a transitive action. in fact the action he is doing is the modal verb (tsun in your sentence). in your sentence the subject doesn't fly. he can (fly).
Nivume Na'vit, fpivìl nìNa'vi, kivame na Na'vi.....
oer fko syaw tswusayona tsamsiyu

Offline Sireayä mokri

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Re: Na'vi practice thread
« Reply #211 on: August 04, 2011, 01:40:34 pm »
I'd use makto instead of tswayon.
When the mirror speaks, the reflection lies.

Offline Tswusayona Tsamsiyu

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Re: Na'vi practice thread
« Reply #212 on: August 04, 2011, 02:21:31 pm »
me too, but was more important for me to explain him the modal agentive thing. :D
Nivume Na'vit, fpivìl nìNa'vi, kivame na Na'vi.....
oer fko syaw tswusayona tsamsiyu

Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Na'vi practice thread
« Reply #213 on: August 04, 2011, 09:08:35 pm »
Here is another sentence along these lines, with a twist:

Fpamìl Oel futa Tewkiri lu  sìltsana taronyu a yerik sì talioang

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro eylan.falulukana@gmail.com

Offline Syulang

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Re: Na'vi practice thread
« Reply #214 on: August 04, 2011, 09:57:15 pm »
Oel makto hu oeya ikran ulte ayoeng tswayon 'awitseng. Ayoeng tswayon kxamlä ayutral ulte taw.

I had to use the dictionary for a few words, but other than that it was all good. now for the deluge of corrections  ;D ;D
Oel ayngati kameie ma oeyä aysmukan sì aysmuke ulte Eywa ayngahu livu

munea kifkey, 'awa soaia

Offline Yawne Zize’ite

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Re: Na'vi practice thread
« Reply #215 on: August 04, 2011, 10:39:47 pm »
How many people are riding?  I think "ayoeng" is a plural inclusive form and there's some other form for dual inclusive.

These are sentences I translated as I started trying to learn a bit of Na'vi, so I used dictionaries and grammars heavily and probably made some errors nonetheless.
Ulte srake ayngari nìwotx olo’eyktanit ke tìlmatängep? Ulte ke tìyatep 'upet alahe krr a fìtseng aysawtute tätxängaw?


Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Na'vi practice thread
« Reply #216 on: August 05, 2011, 12:26:00 am »
How many people are riding?  I think "ayoeng" is a plural inclusive form and there's some other form for dual inclusive.

As written, Syulang's sentence makes good sense. I think the plural inclusive form was what was meant. 'we' here is referring to many riders/flyers. The dual inclusive form is  simply oeng.

Quote from: Yawne Zize’ite
These are sentences I translated as I started trying to learn a bit of Na'vi, so I used dictionaries and grammars heavily and probably made some errors nonetheless.
Ulte srake ayngari nìwotx olo’eyktanit ke tìlmatängep? Ulte ke tìyatep 'upet alahe krr a fìtseng aysawtute tätxängaw?

An interesting attempt to translate a difficult-to-translate bit of English. There are three things here that are most troublesome. The first is that you are trying to translate literal, word-for-word English. This is a very common issue with new learners, and I still occasionally do it 18 months later. Take advantage of Na`vi's (relatively) free word order, and lack of indefinite articles! (an, the, etc.) The second is that the construction of the English text is highly idiomatic. English speakers would see right through the idiom, and it is the idiomatic construction that adds 'punch' to the meaning here. However, a Na`vi person would not 'get' the idiom. So, this passage first needs to be re-worded into simple English to make an effective message (the 'punch' can be added back using word order, choice of words, etc.) Third, you are trying to 'force-fit' inappropriate words. You are using 'die' for 'lose'. This may work in the first sentence here, but it doesn't work in the second sentence. There is a word for 'lose', the verb snaytx, or the noun tìisnaytx 'loss'. There are other issues with this passage, but these biggies need attention first.

I am not going to suggest an alternative sentence here. I would like you to think through what I wrote above and see what you come up with. And don't feel picked-on; we all learned this way!

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro eylan.falulukana@gmail.com

Offline Yawne Zize’ite

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Re: Na'vi practice thread
« Reply #217 on: August 05, 2011, 02:16:16 am »
Thank you for the advice!
I usually apply the logic that if English and Japanese share a construction, it's universally applicable.  That tripped me up since they share "lose" for "be affected by a death".   :-[
Does Na'vi have a verb meaning "to lose" in the sense of "cease to have" or うしなう?  I thought snaytx meant "fail in a contest" or まける and tatep meant "cease to have."

Does Na'vi not have the device of the rhetorical negative question?  English and Japanese share the device, but I think English uses it more.

Without the idiom of "losing" a loved one to lean on, I think I need to entirely rewrite the second sentence; I'd rather have the effect of the repeated verb than the exact content.

What about Ayngari nìwotx tìlmerkängup olo'eyktan. Ulte sawtute tätxaw a krr tìyerkup nìteng aynga kop.

Offline Tswusayona Tsamsiyu

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Re: Na'vi practice thread
« Reply #218 on: August 05, 2011, 05:34:08 am »
Oel makto hu oeya ikran ulte ayoeng tswayon 'awitseng. Ayoeng tswayon kxamlä ayutral ulte taw.

I had to use the dictionary for a few words, but other than that it was all good. now for the deluge of corrections  ;D ;D
the first thing that doesn't make sense here is that you wrote makto hu ikran. banshees can't ride so either say you "fly" with him (tswayon hu ikran) or ride the ikran (makto ikranit).
second, there's no need of agentive on oe in the beginning because you don't have any transitive verb or direct object.
also, ayoeng is wrong. first of all you and your ikran are only 2, so you need the prefix me-. also, you are not speaking to the banshee but to some other person. therefore you need the exclusive form. so use moe.
last, in the second sentence you used ulte which is for connecting clauses and not things. here you need .
Nivume Na'vit, fpivìl nìNa'vi, kivame na Na'vi.....
oer fko syaw tswusayona tsamsiyu

Offline Tswusayona Tsamsiyu

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Re: Na'vi practice thread
« Reply #219 on: August 05, 2011, 05:40:39 am »
These are sentences I translated as I started trying to learn a bit of Na'vi, so I used dictionaries and grammars heavily and probably made some errors nonetheless.
Ulte srake ayngari nìwotx olo’eyktanit ke tìlmatängep? Ulte ke tìyatep 'upet alahe krr a fìtseng aysawtute tätxängaw?
first of all, it's hard for me to understand what you meant in the second sentence.
as for what I could:
tatep is "to lose track" so it doesn't fit here. honestly I don't know what to use there. perhaps lom.
also, in the second sentence you need the adposition ne (towards) on fìtseng. they return to here.
Nivume Na'vit, fpivìl nìNa'vi, kivame na Na'vi.....
oer fko syaw tswusayona tsamsiyu

 

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