Author Topic: Na'vi practice thread  (Read 13449 times)

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Offline Ftiafpi

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Re: Na'vi practice thread
« Reply #40 on: August 02, 2010, 09:50:36 pm »
Lu hasey.

Carry on ma tsmukan sì tsmuke.

Offline Plumps

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Re: Na'vi practice thread
« Reply #41 on: August 03, 2010, 01:14:21 am »
Lu hasey.

Carry on ma tsmukan sì tsmuke.

You can say that in Na’vi all the way ;)

S(iv)alew, ma smukan sì smuke … plural would probably work better here, don’t you think? ;)

Offline Ftiafpi

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Re: Na'vi practice thread
« Reply #42 on: August 03, 2010, 01:50:24 pm »
Lu hasey.

Carry on ma tsmukan sì tsmuke.

You can say that in Na’vi all the way ;)

S(iv)alew, ma smukan sì smuke … plural would probably work better here, don’t you think? ;)

Hahah, yeah, I was feeling lazy. I do that all the time, pidgin Na'vi lu txantsan nìwotx!

:P

Zene oel oeyä *ti* niväk set. Mmmmm, *ti*.

Offline MIPP

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Re: Na'vi practice thread
« Reply #43 on: August 05, 2010, 11:51:06 am »
Kaltxì ma smukan sì smuke,

aynga ke plltxe fìtseng? Oel fpamìl a fì'ut livu sìltsan, slä ke lu txan sawtute perlltxe fìtseng tsaru.
Oel sìlpey oeyä aylì'ut apamrel sawni lu nìfya'o eyawr pamrel soli
  >:(
« Last Edit: August 05, 2010, 11:55:38 am by MIPP »
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Tsamsiyu92

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Re: Na'vi practice thread
« Reply #44 on: August 05, 2010, 02:07:12 pm »
Kaltxì ma smukan sì smuke,

aynga ke plltxe fìtseng srak? Oel fpamìl fì'ut a fì'u livu sìltsan, slä ke lu pxaya tawtute a perlltxe fìtseng tsaru.
Oe sìlpey tsnì oeyä aylì'u apamrel sawni livu nìfya'o eyawr pamrel soli  >:(

Things you should note

1. Questions that the first one is a yes/no question, use the srak marker for that, if you intended to say "..., right?" use "..., kefyak srak?"
2. fì'ut a (or simply futa) should have the fì'ut on the side with the transitive verb (in your case "fpil")
3. Pxay fits better than txan here, and of course everyone here are human beings, so use tute (person) instead of tawtute (sky-person).
4. "Tsaru" is wrong here, "there are not many people here who speak to that thing." is not what you are saying, just erase it, and you get what your translation is saying
5. "sìlpey" and some other verbs use "tsnì" for the "that" and is intransitive, so no ergative on "oe". Also an <iv> infix is required in the verb after tsnì.
6. If you want to say "written correctly", try this for your last sentence

Oe sìlpey tsnì oe pamrel silvi fì'uru nìfya'o aeyawr
I hope that I wrote this in a correct way

or maybe
Oe sìlpey tsnì oeyä pamrelur ke livu kea kxeyey
I hope that my writing have no errors

I'm not sure if nì- is productive enough so you can write "nìyawr" instead of "nìfya'o aeyawr"...however, I would have understood "nìyawr" as the adverb "correctly".

all "<noun> si" verbs are intransitive and if they take objects, it gets the dative case (-ru/-ur).

The way I corrected it in the quote is easily understood, you don't have to make it hard for yourself.

I hope you learned something. Like my german teacher said (which I should have listened to).and Jake Sully in the movie, "repetition, repetition".

I hope I did not wrongly correct or miss something.

EDIT: Forgot <iv> after "tsnì".
« Last Edit: August 05, 2010, 03:48:56 pm by Tsamsiyu92 »

Offline MIPP

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Re: Na'vi practice thread
« Reply #45 on: August 06, 2010, 05:54:17 am »
Srane, oe tslolam.
Oeyä kxeyey lamu skxawng. Oel omamum tsat, ke omum oeykit a tswa’ tsat.
Slä oe ke tslam krr a zene pamrel si futa/fwa tup a.
Irayo, ma 'eylan.
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Hufwe lìng io pay, nìfnu slä nìlaw.
Loveless, Act IV.

Tsamsiyu92

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Re: Na'vi practice thread
« Reply #46 on: August 07, 2010, 06:19:18 am »
Srane, oe tslolam.
Oeyä kxeyey lamu leskxawng. Oel omamum tsat, slä ke omum oeykit a tswa’ tsat.
Slä oe ke tslam krr a zene pamrel si san futa/fwa sìk tup san a sìk.
Irayo, ma 'eylan.
You did quite well this time :)

Let me try to answer your question. futa/fwa is fì'ut a/fì'u a and is used to make the following clause a direct object or noun. a alone is used in relative clauses to make the clause relative like which/who/that does in english, like it does tho "this-thing" (fì'u(t))

They are modified by cases
Fwa = absolutive (fì-'u a)
Futa = accusative (fì-'u-ti a)
Furia = topical (fì-'u-ri a)

Sunu oeru fwa srung si ngaru
I like this-thing-that-is help you

You can see here that the clause following "fwa" is the thing that I like.



Trram tsalme'a oe palulukan a 'armeko sawtutet
Yesterday saw I a thanathor that were attacking the sky people.

Here the clause after "a" describes the thanathor.



You see "a" in the dictionary as "that", but you also have to realise that Na'vi is not english cipher.

I hope this seems right to you and to the immortals.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2010, 06:22:32 am by Tsamsiyu92 »

Offline MIPP

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Re: Na'vi practice thread
« Reply #47 on: August 08, 2010, 08:48:52 am »
Tam, oe tslamam futa, slä oe ke tslam fwa sì furia (oe ke omum {the topical})
Na'vi for beginners | Dict-Na'vi.com

Hufwe lìng io pay, nìfnu slä nìlaw.
Loveless, Act IV.

Offline Lance R. Casey

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Re: Na'vi practice thread
« Reply #48 on: August 08, 2010, 12:53:24 pm »
Translated a difficult quote. It's got lots of embedded clauses, help me find errors:

San tìyawnìri: Fko a fì’uti ke 'efu, fko a ke tsun ftivang tìfpusìlfpi ulte a ke tsun kivllkxem tengkrr poeltur tìtxen sivi nìspawne'e, ha lu na kerusey: poyä menari tstu lolu. Sìk ta Älprrtì Aynstayn

"Love: One that does not feel this, one that cannot stop for the sake of thinking and that cannot stand while captured in interest, in that case is like dead: he's eyes are closed." -Albert Einstein
“LOVE: He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed.” -Albert Einstein

So, I'm finally back up to speed again, and even though it's been a week I thought I'd offer some comments on this.

1. Kllkxem contains a nominal stem, so the infixes all go into the second part.
2. To indicate simultaneous action, Frommer says to use tengkrr with ‹er›, and remember the vowel shift in the genitive pronouns: tengkrr peyä eltur tìtxen seri
3. The use of ha seems like a non sequitur to me; if I wanted to reaffirm the original subject (fko), I would probably have used tsa'awpo or something similar. Come to think of it, I'm not sure fko is appropriate in the first place, and that 'awpo or just tute would be better.
4. Remember, Na'vi participles are attributive only, so something like keruseya 'awpo would be needed.
5. I disagree that any aspect marking is necessary to convey "his eyes are closed": were it worded with tstu si, then yes, certainly, but tstu on its own is a simple adjective describing a state.

// Lance R. Casey

Offline Ftiafpi

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Re: Na'vi practice thread
« Reply #49 on: August 09, 2010, 09:13:30 pm »
Translated a difficult quote. It's got lots of embedded clauses, help me find errors:

San tìyawnìri: Fko a fì’uti ke 'efu, fko a ke tsun ftivang tìfpusìlfpi ulte a ke tsun kivllkxem tengkrr poeltur tìtxen sivi nìspawne'e, ha lu na kerusey: poyä menari tstu lolu. Sìk ta Älprrtì Aynstayn

"Love: One that does not feel this, one that cannot stop for the sake of thinking and that cannot stand while captured in interest, in that case is like dead: he's eyes are closed." -Albert Einstein
“LOVE: He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed.” -Albert Einstein

So, I'm finally back up to speed again, and even though it's been a week I thought I'd offer some comments on this.

1. Kllkxem contains a nominal stem, so the infixes all go into the second part.
2. To indicate simultaneous action, Frommer says to use tengkrr with ‹er›, and remember the vowel shift in the genitive pronouns: tengkrr peyä eltur tìtxen seri
3. The use of ha seems like a non sequitur to me; if I wanted to reaffirm the original subject (fko), I would probably have used tsa'awpo or something similar. Come to think of it, I'm not sure fko is appropriate in the first place, and that 'awpo or just tute would be better.
4. Remember, Na'vi participles are attributive only, so something like keruseya 'awpo would be needed.
5. I disagree that any aspect marking is necessary to convey "his eyes are closed": were it worded with tstu si, then yes, certainly, but tstu on its own is a simple adjective describing a state.

Excellent, good stuff here.
1. and 2. make sense; hadn't heard about the bit from Frommer, that's useful.
3. Yeah, that makes a lot more sense, I've edited it to 'awpo and tsa'awpo.
4. Not sure what you mean here, why can't I use keruseya with lu?
5. Makes sense, I agree.

Offline Plumps

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Re: Na'vi practice thread
« Reply #50 on: August 10, 2010, 03:58:23 am »
4. Not sure what you mean here, why can't I use keruseya with lu?
kerusey (and rusey) is a bit of an exception to the ›rule‹ because it means dead (resp. alive) on its own.

But otherwise it is said again and again that the participle infixes can only be used with the attributive form -a- to connect with a noun. So:

kelutral askawna’athe destroyed hometree
is possible. But not *kelutral lu skawna’a*

Quote from: K. Pawl, Feb 13
The point of participles in Na'vi is that they're ONLY used attributively.
cf.: source HERE

Offline Lance R. Casey

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Re: Na'vi practice thread
« Reply #51 on: August 10, 2010, 05:48:45 am »
kerusey (and rusey) is a bit of an exception to the ›rule‹ because it means dead (resp. alive) on its own.

You mean to the point that they have been lexicalized as such, obscuring the participial origin? Is there evidence for that (other than that rusey can also function as a noun meaning "living thing")?

Contrariwise, in the source post you linked to above, Frommer attaches no special significance to kerusey, and his comment about the syntactic limitations of the participles follows directly upon his discussion of "dead (= non-living)".

// Lance R. Casey

Offline Plumps

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Re: Na'vi practice thread
« Reply #52 on: August 10, 2010, 08:32:48 am »
You mean to the point that they have been lexicalized as such, obscuring the participial origin? Is there evidence for that (other than that rusey can also function as a noun meaning "living thing")?

Yes, that’s what I meant.
I don’t know – you’d have to ask Pawl ;)

I think it’s interesting that in his first sample sentence he uses tìtaron for hunting – maybe he hadn’t thought up the gerund form with tì-‹us› yet :P

Offline Ftiafpi

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Re: Na'vi practice thread
« Reply #53 on: August 10, 2010, 08:57:53 am »
okay, well then what's a safer way to say "as good as dead" nìNa'vi?

Offline Pxia Säsngap

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Re: Na'vi practice thread
« Reply #54 on: August 10, 2010, 12:27:20 pm »
okay, well then what's a safer way to say "as good as dead" nìNa'vi?

Why do you want to say it in such an difficult way? The Na'vi always say things with metaphors and similar expressions. So, why don't you just use dead? As a metaphor for the state the person you're talking about is in. And it can't be misunderstood, because you then also explain your picture within the same sentence...

Then in the explanation of as good as dead: Don't know if anyone has already told you... isn't there a mistake? I guess the possessive form of po is peyä. At least I thought so... Isn't that correct?
Eywa ayngahu
Ma oeyä eylan aynga oeru yawne lu <3 ;D :D ;D

Offline Pxia Säsngap

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Re: Na'vi practice thread
« Reply #55 on: August 10, 2010, 05:25:27 pm »
I see that you also wrote peyä in the sentence (before). So I guess your poyä was just a careless mistake, wasn't it?
Eywa ayngahu
Ma oeyä eylan aynga oeru yawne lu <3 ;D :D ;D

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Re: Na'vi practice thread
« Reply #56 on: August 10, 2010, 08:19:00 pm »
I see that you also wrote peyä in the sentence (before). So I guess your poyä was just a careless mistake, wasn't it?
Yeah, I fixed it.

Tsamsiyu92

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Re: Na'vi practice thread
« Reply #57 on: August 11, 2010, 07:45:23 pm »
Tam, oe tslamam futa, slä oe ke tslam fwa sì furia (oe ke omum {the topical})
I have not corrected anything in the quote, just telling you about your few errors here.

futa/fwa/furia are used only to make the following clause an object, fì'ut is what you should have in the first part, and -l on the subject (oe).

fwa is when it's an object, but not accusative (direct object), it's absolutive and is used when the clause is a subject to an intransitive verb like in those examples:

Na'vi - direct translation - in proper englsih.
prrte' lu oeru fwa... - plasure is to-me that... - It pleases me that...
law lu oeru fwa... - clear is to-me that... - Its clear to me that...
sunu oeru fwa... - I like...

Furia is used when the-thing is topical, the -ri/-ìri case. Used for thanking for instance. Similiar to "regarding [noun]..." "as for [noun]..."

Example: seiyi oe irayo ngaru srungìri (I thank you for the help)
(irayo si is the only si-verb where si can be placed freely)

furia works there if you for instance thank someone for an action they did like
Irayo seiyi oe ngaru furia ngal tspolang tsanantang a 'oleko oet.
Thank do I to-you for-this-thing-that you killed the nantang that attacked me.

(<eiy> is used to prevent "ii")

It's late here, I'll edit tomorrow if i missed something.

Offline Plumps

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Re: Na'vi practice thread
« Reply #58 on: August 12, 2010, 03:47:02 am »
Example: seiyi oe irayo ngaru srungìri (I thank you for the help)
(irayo si is the only si-verb where si can be placed freely)

Not that I would use it that often, but may I ask where you get that from? Can’t remember Pawl ever commenting on that… :)

Offline Lance R. Casey

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Re: Na'vi practice thread
« Reply #59 on: August 12, 2010, 09:40:54 am »
futa/fwa/furia are used only to make the following clause an object
That's not really true. These words are contractions that make the following clause an attributive phrase and anchor it to a dummy pronoun, which then can function as either an object, a subject or a topic.

fwa is when it's an object, but not accusative (direct object), it's absolutive and is used when the clause is a subject to an intransitive verb like in those examples:

Na'vi - direct translation - in proper englsih.
prrte' lu oeru fwa... - plasure is to-me that... - It pleases me that...
law lu oeru fwa... - clear is to-me that... - Its clear to me that...
sunu oeru fwa... - I like...
Your initial statement is contradictory; in these examples, the fì'u part of fwa is the subject of the main clause -- the only object here is oeru.
And, while I'm at it, I'd like to point out that prrte' is an adjective -- "pleasure" as a noun is tìprrte'.

Example: seiyi oe irayo ngaru srungìri (I thank you for the help)
(irayo si is the only si-verb where si can be placed freely)
Not that I would use it that often, but may I ask where you get that from? Can’t remember Pawl ever commenting on that… :)
Tìng nari fìtsenge.

// Lance R. Casey

 

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