Not easy to translate/understand sentences

Started by Blue Elf, June 16, 2014, 02:34:22 PM

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Vawmataw

Fmawn Ta 'Rrta - News IN NA'VI ONLY (Discord)
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Tirea Aean


Kame Ayyo’koti

I thought it would be fun to try translating some pagan material into Na'vi.
Ended up pulling a lot of hair with this one:
The Wiccan Rede

Specifically this:
QuoteEight words the Wiccan Rede fulfill,
An(d) it harm none
do what ye will.

According to Wikipedia, Rede can mean "advice," so I've used Mowar.
I also took some poetic license with moving words around:

Vola lì'ur Mowar hasey seiyi,
Eight-> words the-Rede accomplishes
Ulte tsayhemìri a nga kem sivi
And regarding-those-things which you may-do
Txo kawtut tìsraw seyki ke
If no-one is-hurt not
Tsakrr sä'eoio nga siveiyi
Then the-ritual you may-perform.

Nevermind that my grammar is probably terrible — it's very wordy, and I'm no poet. How could we shorten it? (Keeping in mind Na'vi sayings like, "Ätxäle palukanur.")

Vola lì'ur hasey _ Mowar,
Eight-> words accomplishes the-Rede,
Ul-txo kawtut tìsraw ke seyk_
And-if no-one (it) hurts-not
_ Kem si tsar a sunu ngar.
Do that which pleases you.


/You're a poet, Harry!
"Your work is to discover your world, and then with all your heart give yourself to it."

Vawmataw

#63
QuoteEight words the Wiccan Rede fulfill
I think it must be translated by the meaning.
If I read the Spanish version of Rede, I think it means:

The Wiccan Rede has eight words:
If your actions don't hurt,
You can do want you want.

Lu mowaru Wikanä vola lì'u:
Txo kawtut tìsraw ke seykivi
Tsakrr nga tsun hem a sunu ngar sivi. (not sure about the correctness)


QuoteTxo kawtut tìsraw seyki ke
Tìsraw ke seyki

Quotesä'eoio nga siveiyi
nga sä'eoio siveiyi

Fmawn Ta 'Rrta - News IN NA'VI ONLY (Discord)
Traducteur francophone de Kelutral.org, dict-navi et Reykunyu

Kame Ayyo’koti

Quote from: Vawmataw on October 30, 2014, 08:41:30 PM
QuoteTxo kawtut tìsraw seyki ke
Tìsraw ke seyki

Quotesä'eoio nga siveiyi
nga sä'eoio siveiyi

Quote from: Kame Ayyo'koti on October 30, 2014, 08:19:25 PM
I also took some poetic license with moving words around
"Your work is to discover your world, and then with all your heart give yourself to it."

Kame Ayyo’koti

Quote from: Vawmataw on October 30, 2014, 08:41:30 PM
QuoteEight words the Wiccan Rede fulfill
I think it must be translated by the meaning.
If I read the Spanish version of Rede, I think it means:

The Wiccan Rede has eight words:
If your actions don't hurt,
You can do want you want.

I misunderstood. I thought it was referring to words previously said, as in, "The Rede fulfills these words..." not as giving an order, "You: fulfill these words..."

How about:

Hasey si nga Faylì'ur:
Accomplish you these-words:
Txo kawtut tìsraw ke seyk_
If no-one (it) hurts-not
_ Kem si tsar a sunu ngar.
Do that which pleases you.

Or even:

Lu Mowarur faylì'u:
Has the-Rede these-words:
Txo kawtut tìsraw ke seyk_
If no-one (it) hurts-not
_ Kem si tsar a ngar sunu.
Do that which you (it) pleases.
"Your work is to discover your world, and then with all your heart give yourself to it."

Plumps

Quote from: Kame Ayyo'koti on October 30, 2014, 08:19:25 PM
Vola lì'ur Mowar hasey seiyi,
Eight-> words the-Rede accomplishes
Ulte tsayhemìri a nga (kem) sivi
And regarding-those-things which you may-do
Txo kawtut tìsraw seyki ke
If no-one is-hurt not
Tsakrr sä'eoio nga siveiyi
Then the-ritual you may-perform.

That's the only thing I noticed. You can leave out the second kem.

Concerning the shortened forms, I'd only suggest.

sunu ngar a kem si
"do (the action) that you like"

I'm always hesitant to use a form of tsaw (> tsa'u) with kem because it rules itself out. As I understand it, you cannot "do an action to a thing"

Kame Ayyo’koti

#67
Quote from: Plumps on October 31, 2014, 11:39:16 AM
Concerning the shortened forms, I'd only suggest.

sunu ngar a kem si
"do (the action) that you like"
That's a good idea. I still sometimes forget that the "noun-head" of si-verbs can be given adjectives, etc.

I want to arrange these words in a way that sounds nice and flows well, such as with the u's at the end:

Lu Mowarur vopeya lì'u:
Has the-Rede 11 words:
Txo tìsraw ke seyki kawtut
If (it) hurts-not no-one
Si kem aketsran a ngar sunu.
Do whatever thing which you (it) pleases.

I "bent" that last part a lot.
Or it could maybe be this:

Lu Mowarur lì'u avomun:
Has the-Rede 10 words:
Txo kawtut tìsraw ke seyki
If no-one (it) hurts-not
Sunu ngar a kem sivei_.
Which you pleases (you) may do (gladly).

Even shorter:

Faylì'ur Mowarä zen_ hasey si:
These-words of-the-Rede (you) must accomplish:
Tìsraw ke seyki a kem sivei_.
Action which hurts not (you) may-do-gladly.

There's so many ways one could go with this...
I think this one sounds best:

Faylì'ur Mowarä zene fko hasey si*:
These-words of-the-Rede must one accomplish:
Ketsran ke tìsraw seyk_, tsakem sivei_.
Whatever not hurts, that-thing (you) may-do-gladly.

Quote from: Plumps on October 31, 2014, 11:39:16 AM
I'm always hesitant to use a form of tsaw (> tsa'u) with kem because it rules itself out. As I understand it, you cannot "do an action to a thing"[/size][/font]

It does sound circular now that you mention it. I was reading it as, "Do that-thing which...," but a more literal translation would probably be, "That-thing do to-that-(same)thing..." Ah, more fun and confusion with si verbs.  ;)
"Your work is to discover your world, and then with all your heart give yourself to it."

Blue Elf

Quote from: Plumps on October 31, 2014, 11:39:16 AM
Concerning the shortened forms, I'd only suggest.

sunu ngar a kem si
"do (the action) that you like"

I'm always hesitant to use a form of tsaw (> tsa'u) with kem because it rules itself out. As I understand it, you cannot "do an action to a thing"[/size][/font]
We never use *kem si tsa'ur/tsar, but tsakem si.

As for short version, I'd come with:
Fìkorenit zene nivong:
sunu ngar a kem sivi
txo kawtut tìsraw ke seyki

It would be nice to make it rhyme, but it is hard...
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Vawmataw

QuoteIt would be nice to make it rhyme, but it is hard...
I see a rhyme: sivi with seyki
Fmawn Ta 'Rrta - News IN NA'VI ONLY (Discord)
Traducteur francophone de Kelutral.org, dict-navi et Reykunyu

Plumps

Quote from: Blue Elf on October 31, 2014, 03:08:48 PM
Fìkorenit zene nivong:
sunu ngar a kem sivi
txo kawtut tìsraw ke seyki

:D Then we could make it:

Zene nivong fìkorenti:
sunu ngar a kem sivi
txo kawtut tìsraw ke seyki


Not the best of rhymes but it does the trick.
Although, just for nitpicker's sake :P ;) we still don't know exactly whether nong is transitive or intransitive.

Blue Elf

Quote from: Plumps on October 31, 2014, 05:48:22 PM
:D Then we could make it:
Although, just for nitpicker's sake :P ;) we still don't know exactly whether nong is transitive or intransitive.

I'm aware of that...
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Plumps

Quote from: Blue Elf on November 01, 2014, 02:06:08 PM
Quote from: Plumps on October 31, 2014, 05:48:22 PM
:D Then we could make it:
Although, just for nitpicker's sake :P ;) we still don't know exactly whether nong is transitive or intransitive.

I'm aware of that...

I know you do ;)
Sometimes, these uncertainties drive me crazier than words we still lack (and I'd wish we had ...)

naotan

 hello!

this is a sentence i came up with to test my udersading of clause atribution

this person who came in to my coffee shop yesterday in order to order a cappuccino was a lovely person who would light up a room with there positivity is the person I have fallen in love with!

Fìtutel a za'u trram nemfa oeyä kelku a oel tìng futa naer a sar utralä 'e'in  suteru yoa txolar volin naerit a nga' yrar naer a sar utralä 'e'in soma okupsì hì'ia txatxsì a fwa lu tuteol tsun tsan'eykivul frapeyä(?) sì'eful ìlä suteyä tìfkeytok lefpom  fwa lu yawne oeru!

this is my best go at it
i am not sure of the genitive form of frapo

could you help please? (sorry for any typos )

Blue Elf

Uh, too difficult sentence, which is hard to understand even in English. IMHO there is something extra inside, what should be removed. Let's analyze:

this person <- who came in to my coffee shop yesterday in order to order a cappuccino was a lovely person <- who would light up a room with there positivity is the person I have fallen in love with!

Main part of sentence is blue and words marked by <- are attributed by red parts (so will be marked by "a" marker in Na'vi). But what about remaining white part, where is it connected to? It looks redundant.

If you mean something like
this person who came in to my coffee shop yesterday in order to order a cappuccino is a person who would light up a room with positivity and one I have fallen in love with!
I'd try this:

Fìtute a trram zol'au nemfa kelku oeyä fte rivawn txolarit yoa naer a ta 'e'in sì okup lu tute a teya si snomor fa syura asìltsan ulte lu pum a oeru yawne slolu!
This person, who yesterday came to my house to exchange money for drink made of gourd and milk is a person, who fills room by good energy and is one who became loved to me!

Of course there are other versions possible, you can try "vin" on place of "rawm", be more creative in second white part etc. Often you have more options and it is hard to mark one as the best.
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


naotan

#75
brilliant irayo ma blue elf

i did conjure with pum but i dont really get the rules of it yet

is that to complex of a sentence for this thread??

thank you so much!!

Vawmataw

Quote from: Plumps on October 31, 2014, 05:48:22 PM
Quote from: Blue Elf on October 31, 2014, 03:08:48 PMFìkorenit zene nivong:
sunu ngar a kem sivi
txo kawtut tìsraw ke seyki

:D Then we could make it:

Zene nivong fìkorenti:
sunu ngar a kem sivi
txo kawtut tìsraw ke seyki


Not the best of rhymes but it does the trick.
Although, just for nitpicker's sake :P ;) we still don't know exactly whether nong is transitive or intransitive.

Now we do, and the sentence is still correct. ;)
Fmawn Ta 'Rrta - News IN NA'VI ONLY (Discord)
Traducteur francophone de Kelutral.org, dict-navi et Reykunyu

Blue Elf

Quote from: naotan on January 26, 2023, 03:55:02 PMbrilliant irayo ma blue elf

i did conjure with pum but i dont really get the rules of it yet

is that to complex of a sentence for this thread??

thank you so much!!
The more complex sentence - the better job for our brains  :)
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Toliman

Quote from: Blue Elf on January 27, 2023, 05:26:47 PM
Quote from: naotan on January 26, 2023, 03:55:02 PMbrilliant irayo ma blue elf

i did conjure with pum but i dont really get the rules of it yet

is that to complex of a sentence for this thread??

thank you so much!!
The more complex sentence - the better job for our brains  :)
Oe mllte :)

naotan

Quote from: Blue Elf on January 27, 2023, 05:26:47 PM
Quote from: naotan on January 26, 2023, 03:55:02 PMbrilliant irayo ma blue elf

i did conjure with pum but i dont really get the rules of it yet

is that to complex of a sentence for this thread??

thank you so much!!
The more complex sentence - the better job for our brains  :)
ahh ok good to know if i come up with any more good ones i'll know where to bring them!