Author Topic: Not easy to translate/understand sentences  (Read 5785 times)

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Offline Wllìm

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Re: Not easy to translate/understand sentences
« Reply #40 on: August 26, 2014, 07:25:31 am »
Perhaps something like this?

Ke lu fìtsenge kea kem.
There is no thing (to do) here.

Namely, a "thing to do" is an "action" = kem... Don't know if this works :-\

Or perhaps a "workaround":

Oeri eltur tìtxen ke si fìtsenge.
This place doesn't interest me.
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Offline Tìtstewan

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Re: Not easy to translate/understand sentences
« Reply #41 on: August 26, 2014, 07:34:54 am »
What about this? (yeah, I know it's a long sentence...)

Ke'u a ke zene/zenke oe kem sivi fìtseng.
Nothing that I have/must not to do here.

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Offline Wllìm

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Re: Not easy to translate/understand sentences
« Reply #42 on: August 26, 2014, 07:43:03 am »
What about this? (yeah, I know it's a long sentence...)

Ke'u a ke zene/zenke oe kem sivi fìtseng.
Nothing that I have/must not to do here.

I'm not sure about that ke in the subordinate clause... Doesn't double negation only work in the main clause? :o :-\

(Ke lu) ke'u a (ke?) tsun oe kem sivi fìtseng.
(There is) no-"I can do it here"-thing.
I can't do anything here.

Tse... difficult ???
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Offline Tìtstewan

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Re: Not easy to translate/understand sentences
« Reply #43 on: August 26, 2014, 08:20:16 am »
I'm not sure about that ke in the subordinate clause... Doesn't double negation only work in the main clause? :o :-\
I'm also not really sure.
Not bad, so much work just for a so simple sentence. :o :o

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Offline Blue Elf

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Re: Not easy to translate/understand sentences
« Reply #44 on: August 26, 2014, 09:14:52 am »
Tìtstewan and I were discussing in the thread Can we get 90002 posts? about the translation of Nothing to do here. Here are our translations:

  • Kekem a ke si fìtsenge. (Me)
  • Fìtsengìri oe ke zene kem sivi ke'ur. (Tìtstewan)
  • Fìtsenge oe zenke kekem ke sivi. (edited by me)
Ke lu kekem a tsun fko sivi fìtsenge - There's no action which one can do here. It's best I can think of.

Quote
Ke lu fìtsenge kea kem.
This means: There's no action here (like Kekemìl ke tok fìtsenget  :)).

Quote
(Ke lu) ke'u a (ke?) tsun oe kem sivi fìtseng.
This doesn't work - actions are done, not things -> Ke lu kekem a tsun oe (kem) sivi fìtseng (what is basicaly my example above)

Quote
Ke'u a ke zene/zenke oe kem sivi fìtseng.
same problem - you can't do thing, but action (like: Tsakem si, not *Kem si tsa'ur)
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Offline Vawmataw

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Re: Not easy to translate/understand sentences
« Reply #45 on: August 26, 2014, 09:19:36 am »
Thank you Blue Elf!
What do you think of Kekem a ke si fìtsenge?

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Not easy to translate/understand sentences
« Reply #46 on: August 26, 2014, 11:25:48 am »
Tìtstewan and I were discussing in the thread Can we get 90002 posts? about the translation of Nothing to do here. Here are our translations:

  • Kekem a ke si fìtsenge. (Me)
  • Fìtsengìri oe ke zene kem sivi ke'ur. (Tìtstewan)
  • Fìtsenge oe zenke kekem ke sivi. (edited by me)
Ke lu kekem a tsun fko sivi fìtsenge - There's no action which one can do here. It's best I can think of.

Quote
Ke lu fìtsenge kea kem.
This means: There's no action here (like Kekemìl ke tok fìtsenget  :)).

Quote
(Ke lu) ke'u a (ke?) tsun oe kem sivi fìtseng.
This doesn't work - actions are done, not things -> Ke lu kekem a tsun oe (kem) sivi fìtseng (what is basicaly my example above)

Quote
Ke'u a ke zene/zenke oe kem sivi fìtseng.
same problem - you can't do thing, but action (like: Tsakem si, not *Kem si tsa'ur)

This.

Thank you Blue Elf!
What do you think of Kekem a ke si fìtsenge?

I don't know about this one. There's two kind-of clauses going on here (one inside the other, as is always the case with a-descriptions like this).

{ (ke lu) kekem a[ (fko kem) ke si fìtsenge] }


I would have said something like this, for "Nothing to do here"
Kea kem fìtseng

As a short phrase, it works. Of course, it's truncated and a grammatical sentence version of it would be something like:

Kea kem fìtseng lu

or

Kea kemìl fìtsengit tok (which I find weird. How can an action, occupy a space...)

EDIT: How about:

Fko ke tsun kekem sivi fìtseng.
Nothing can be done here.
There is nothing one can do here.

:-\

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Offline Blue Elf

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Re: Not easy to translate/understand sentences
« Reply #47 on: August 26, 2014, 12:55:23 pm »
Thank you Blue Elf!
What do you think of Kekem a ke si fìtsenge?

I don't know about this one. There's two kind-of clauses going on here (one inside the other, as is always the case with a-descriptions like this).

{ (ke lu) kekem a[ (fko kem) ke si fìtsenge] }


I would have said something like this, for "Nothing to do here"
To me it sounds more like: There's no action which one does do here -> One does nothing here. So it looks like different meaning.
I would be careful will shortening.
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Not easy to translate/understand sentences
« Reply #48 on: August 26, 2014, 03:53:29 pm »
How about

kea kem mì fìtsenge

or

kea kem tsun fko (kem) sivi mì fìtsenge kaw'it

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Offline Vawmataw

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Re: Not easy to translate/understand sentences
« Reply #49 on: August 26, 2014, 06:12:09 pm »
I forgot to say I want to write that on this meme:


Sorry.
So, even not kea kem a ke si fìtsenge? Ok, well, ke lu kekem a tsun fko sivi fìtsenge is probably the best answer if I put oe instead of fko.

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Not easy to translate/understand sentences
« Reply #50 on: August 26, 2014, 07:14:50 pm »
Awesome. Only problem is that's a lot of text for a meme. I wonder if there's a short way, closer in length to the phrase "Nothing to do here".  Maybe the phrase "Kekem fìtsenge"? (crazy fragmented, but so is the original.) Perhaps "Ke lu kekem fìtseng"?

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Offline Vawmataw

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Re: Not easy to translate/understand sentences
« Reply #51 on: August 26, 2014, 07:25:05 pm »
I have a question: why do you say fìtseng?

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Not easy to translate/understand sentences
« Reply #52 on: August 26, 2014, 07:28:14 pm »
I have a question: why do you say fìtseng?

Because the original said "Nothing to do here". (and it was always known that fìtsenge==fìtseng, if that's what you were referring to)

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Offline Vawmataw

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Re: Not easy to translate/understand sentences
« Reply #53 on: August 26, 2014, 07:30:57 pm »
Quote
(and it was always known that fìtsenge==fìtseng, if that's what you were referring to)
ok
Btw, I chose Ke lu kekem fìtseng. It's short enough. So, thanks everyone for your help!

Oeri eltur tìtxen ke si fìtsenge.
This place doesn't interest me.
I prefer This place doesn't interest me anymore (but does a word or an expression meaning anymore exist?). It's a good proposal, but it's too long.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2014, 07:38:29 pm by Vawmataw »

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Not easy to translate/understand sentences
« Reply #54 on: August 26, 2014, 07:40:57 pm »
Quote
(and it was always known that fìtsenge==fìtseng, if that's what you were referring to)
ok
Btw, I chose Ke lu kekem fìtseng. It's short enough. So, thanks everyone for your help!

:D

Quote
Oeri eltur tìtxen ke si fìtsenge.
This place doesn't interest me.
I prefer This place doesn't interest me anymore (but does a word or an expression meaning anymore exist?). It's a good proposal, but it's too long.

Great question. There is not yet "anymore, no longer". All we know how to say is "This place doesn't interest me now." (In the context where both speaker and listener know that it was of interest to speaker before)

EDIT: Also, this phrase "no longer interests me" can have the actual meaning in English: "is no longer of use to me; As for me, this place is not useful now. (therefore I don't find it interesting, because I'm that kind of person who is only interested in things I can use to my advantage)"
« Last Edit: August 26, 2014, 07:44:11 pm by Tirea Aean »

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Offline Tìtstewan

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Re: Not easy to translate/understand sentences
« Reply #55 on: August 27, 2014, 01:01:31 am »
What about this idea:
Oeri eltur tìtxen ke si fìtseng fìswawta.
This place doesn't interest me since this moment.

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Offline Plumps

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Re: Not easy to translate/understand sentences
« Reply #56 on: August 27, 2014, 05:24:59 am »
Quote
Oeri eltur tìtxen ke si fìtsenge.
This place doesn't interest me.
I prefer This place doesn't interest me anymore (but does a word or an expression meaning anymore exist?). It's a good proposal, but it's too long.

Great question. There is not yet "anymore, no longer". All we know how to say is "This place doesn't interest me now." (In the context where both speaker and listener know that it was of interest to speaker before)

EDIT: Also, this phrase "no longer interests me" can have the actual meaning in English: "is no longer of use to me; As for me, this place is not useful now. (therefore I don't find it interesting, because I'm that kind of person who is only interested in things I can use to my advantage)"

Uhm … What about nulkrr ??? ;) There’s an example sentence on naviteri.org

Ke tsun awnga pivey nulkrr—txew lok.
‘We can’t wait any longer—time is almost up.’

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Not easy to translate/understand sentences
« Reply #57 on: August 27, 2014, 09:32:22 am »
AH! WOW. How did I forget about THAT?

Fìtseng oeyä eltur tìtxen ke si nulkrr.
This place doesn't interest me any longer.

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Offline Vawmataw

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Re: Not easy to translate/understand sentences
« Reply #58 on: August 27, 2014, 09:38:50 am »
AH! WOW. How did I forget about THAT?
That happens. ;)

AH! WOW. How did I forget about THAT?

Fìtseng oeyä eltur tìtxen ke si nulkrr.
This place doesn't interest me any longer.
oeyä? ???
It means to me My place isn't longer interesting.

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Not easy to translate/understand sentences
« Reply #59 on: August 27, 2014, 09:43:33 am »
Yes. Because "eltur tìtxen si" only TRANSLATES to "is interesting". It by far does not literally mean that. It means awaken brain. So to put oeyá is to say, awakens my brain. The original first instance of this phrase was:



If you find all of this “interesting” you now have a way to SAY it...

   eltur tìtxen si = to be interesting / intriguing

      (A) Tsa’u eltur tìtxen si. (“That’s interesting.”)
      (B) Tsavur oeyä eltur tìtxen soli.  (“That story intrigued me.”) OR:
      (C) Tsavur feyä ayeltur tìtxen soli.  (“They found that story interesting.”) OR:
      (D) Pxoeri tsavur eltur tìtxen soli. (“The three of us were interested in that story.”)

If figuring out how many brains are involved for the genitive model is an issue, topicalize the subject(s) in -ìri/-ri and use just one brain as in the example (D).



EDIT: Turns out, the official way to say it is with the oeyä. So excluding oeyä is short version and it is implied.

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