Pamrel si - ke tsun tslivam (Pamrel si - can not understand)

Started by Kemaweyan, March 18, 2010, 10:39:10 AM

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Kemaweyan

Rutxe ralpeng nìNa'vi faylì'ut a san write message sìk. Oel omum futa lì'u a san write sìk lu san pamrel si sìk, slä tsalì'u kemä lu *intransitive*. Pefya fko tsun sivar tsawhu aylì'ut mì nì'ekotu? Oe ke tslam..

Please translate these words: "write message". I know that word "write" is "pamrel si", but that verb is intransitive. How we can use words in accusative with that word? I do not understand..
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Keylstxatsmen

Quote from: Kemaweyan on March 18, 2010, 10:39:10 AM
Rutxe ralpeng nìNa'vi faylì'ut a san write message sìk. Oel omum futa lì'u a san write sìk lu san pamrel si sìk, slä tsalì'u kemä lu *intransitive*. Pefya fko tsun sivar tsawhu aylì'ut mì nì'ekotu? Oe ke tslam..

Please translate these words: "write message". I know that word "write" is "pamrel si", but that verb is intransitive. How we can use words in accusative with that word? I do not understand..

Maybe this is possible with <eyk>.  For example:  Oel pamrel seyki 'upxaret.
Kxawm fìkem tsunslu fa <eyk>.  Tìkenong: Oel parmrel seyki 'upxaret.

-Keyl
Oeru lì'fya leNa'vi prrte' leiu nìtxan! 

Txo nga new leskxawnga tawtutehu nìNa'vi pivängkxo, oeru 'upxaret fpe' ulte ngaru srungit tayìng oel.  Faylì'ut alor nume 'awsiteng ko!

Kemaweyan

Sran, kxawm ngeyä säfpìl lu ngay. Irayo. Oe ke fpamìl teri tsaw...

Yeah, maybe your idea is true. Tsanks. I did not tsink about that...
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

'eylan na'viyä

#3
I have 2 other ideas or rather questions. i hope its not completely stupid

could the topic marker be used?
Oel 'upxareri pamrel si
Oel 'upxareyä tìngopri pamrel si

or a word cluster?
Oe upxarepamrel si

wm.annis

Quote from: Keylstxatsmen on March 18, 2010, 12:19:40 PMMaybe this is possible with <eyk>.  For example:  Oel pamrel seyki 'upxaret.

Frommer has said that the si-construction verbs are intransitive, and that what we normally think of as the direct object will be in the dative.  When an intransitive verb is made causative, the original subject becomes the accusative.  So, oel pamrel seyki 'upxaret means "I made the message write."

"I write a message" is probably oe pamrel si 'upxarer, though I confess I'd like more info on these constructions.  We might end up with double-datives ("I write a message to you") or some other construction ('upxareri oe pamrel sami ulte ngaru fpe').

Keylstxatsmen

Quote from: wm.annis on March 18, 2010, 03:59:33 PM
"I write a message" is probably oe pamrel si 'upxarer, though I confess I'd like more info on these constructions.  We might end up with double-datives ("I write a message to you") or some other construction ('upxareri oe pamrel sami ulte ngaru fpe').

Awesome, thanks!  I would like to see more of this too; it doesn't feel "right" yet without more examples.
Txantsan, irayo! Oe kop new tsive'a nì'ul fì'ut taluna oe vay set ke 'erefu "eyawr" luke sìkenong atxan. 

-Keyl
Oeru lì'fya leNa'vi prrte' leiu nìtxan! 

Txo nga new leskxawnga tawtutehu nìNa'vi pivängkxo, oeru 'upxaret fpe' ulte ngaru srungit tayìng oel.  Faylì'ut alor nume 'awsiteng ko!

Kemaweyan

Srane, frasäfpìl, oe fpìl, lu sìltsan.. kxawm oel tslivam tsayut, txo tuteol pivlltxe tsafya... Kxawm oe zamene nì'it sivar oeyä eltut, talun frasäfpìl lu ftue (set oe fpìl fìfya) :)

Oeru txoa livu, slä set oe ke tsun ralpiveng 'upxaret oeyä nì'Ìnglìsì. Irayo ayngaru nìwotx ulte Eywa ayngaru lrrtok sivi ;)


Yes, those ideas, I think, are good... maybe I would understand if someone said that. I probably should have use my brain, because all ideas are simple (now I think so) :)
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D