Idiomatic Expressions - Remember something

[Mirri]

http://thereadinginpublicproject.blogspot.com/2010/05/paul-frommer.html

Tengkrr palulukan moene kxll sarmi, poltxe Neytiril aylì'ut a frakrr 'ok seyä layu oer.

As the thanator was charging towards the two of us, Neytiri said something I will always remember.

This one puzzled me for a while, but it looks like seyä means the genitive of plural "it" (ay-tsa-eyä).
So when you "remember" something, you "be its remembrance".

[tsrräfkxätu]

http://thereadinginpublicproject.blogspot.com/2010/05/paul-frommer.html

Tengkrr palulukan moene kxll sarmi, poltxe Neytiril aylì'ut a frakrr 'ok seyä layu oer.

As the thanator was charging towards the two of us, Neytiri said something I will always remember.

This one puzzled me for a while, but it looks like seyä means the genitive of plural "it" (ay-tsa-eyä).
So when you "remember" something, you "be its remembrance".

Or more precisely, "its memory belongs to you."

Here, it's "their memory" because of aylì'ut.

[Mirri]

http://thereadinginpublicproject.blogspot.com/2010/05/paul-frommer.html

Tengkrr palulukan moene kxll sarmi, poltxe Neytiril aylì'ut a frakrr 'ok seyä layu oer.

As the thanator was charging towards the two of us, Neytiri said something I will always remember.

This one puzzled me for a while, but it looks like seyä means the genitive of plural "it" (ay-tsa-eyä).
So when you "remember" something, you "be its remembrance".

Or more precisely, "its memory belongs to you."

Here, it's "their memory" because of aylì'ut.

Ah, you're partially right there. I just noticed the short dative and copula, so actually it's "I have their memory".

[tsrräfkxätu]

http://thereadinginpublicproject.blogspot.com/2010/05/paul-frommer.html

Tengkrr palulukan moene kxll sarmi, poltxe Neytiril aylì'ut a frakrr 'ok seyä layu oer.

As the thanator was charging towards the two of us, Neytiri said something I will always remember.

This one puzzled me for a while, but it looks like seyä means the genitive of plural "it" (ay-tsa-eyä).
So when you "remember" something, you "be its remembrance".

Or more precisely, "its memory belongs to you."

Here, it's "their memory" because of aylì'ut.

Ah, you're partially right there. I just noticed the short dative and copula, so actually it's "I have their memory".

No, you got that wrong. I didn't give the translation of the original sentence, I only fixed your rendition of the expression. If you'd checked my bubble, you'd have realized that.

[Mirri]

http://thereadinginpublicproject.blogspot.com/2010/05/paul-frommer.html

Tengkrr palulukan moene kxll sarmi, poltxe Neytiril aylì'ut a frakrr 'ok seyä layu oer.

As the thanator was charging towards the two of us, Neytiri said something I will always remember.

This one puzzled me for a while, but it looks like seyä means the genitive of plural "it" (ay-tsa-eyä).
So when you "remember" something, you "be its remembrance".

Or more precisely, "its memory belongs to you."

Here, it's "their memory" because of aylì'ut.

Ah, you're partially right there. I just noticed the short dative and copula, so actually it's "I have their memory".

No, you got that wrong. I didn't give the translation of the original sentence, I only fixed your rendition of the expression. If you'd checked my bubble, you'd have realized that.

I've no idea what you're talking about anymore.
I showed Paul's sentence and translation and extrapolated the idiomatic expression, then corrected myself when I realized the copula and dative were in there.

[Ftiafpi]

aylì'ut a frakrr 'ok seyä layu oer

Here's how I translate that:

...aylì'ut a frakrr 'ok seyä layu oer
...word-PLU that/which always remembrance that-PLU-GEN be-FUT 1-DAT
Words which I will always have their remembrance.

So we have "words which always remembrance of the words I will have".

[kewnya txamew'itan]

words whose/thats (is thats a word? Spell check doesn't seem to think so) remembrance will always stay with me.

Or words that I will always have memory/ies of.


That's how I'd translate it, not that it really matters. What matters is the idiomatic phrase for X remembers Y which would presumably be " 'ok Yä lu Xur "

[Mirri]

words whose/thats (is thats a word? Spell check doesn't seem to think so) remembrance will always stay with me.

Or words that I will always have memory/ies of.


That's how I'd translate it, not that it really matters. What matters is the idiomatic phrase for X remembers Y which would presumably be "'ok Yä lu Xur "

The genitive in that is what really throws me. Why does the remembrance belong to Y?

You're right about the Na'vi, but it's still too alien from English to remember (ironically), and you're leaving out the fact that the copula and dative is a way to express possession (to have).

How about:  'ok Yä lu Xur / X has Y's remembrance

[omängum fra'uti]

Possession doesn't necessarily denote "ownership".

Rember, Xä Y can be "X's Y" or "Y of X".  In this case, it's "Rememberance of Y"...  Or in total, "X has rememberance of Y".

[Mirri]

Or in total, "X has rememberance of Y".

Ahh, now it all makes sense.

[kewnya txamew'itan]

words whose/thats (is thats a word? Spell check doesn't seem to think so) remembrance will always stay with me.

Or words that I will always have memory/ies of.


That's how I'd translate it, not that it really matters. What matters is the idiomatic phrase for X remembers Y which would presumably be "'ok Yä lu Xur "

You're right about the Na'vi, but it's still too alien from English to remember (ironically), and you're leaving out the fact that the copula and dative is a way to express possession (to have).

Hence my second translation. 

[Mirri]

So the only question remains, why this esoteric expression rather than using zerok?

[omängum fra'uti]

Because it's a story, and language is used in stories as a means of art, not just a means of communication.  Consider...

"What she saw that day was a memory which she would carry with her for the rest of her life, and she treasured it always."
vs
"She was happy she would always remember what she saw."

[Kayrìlien]

This construction is confusing the hell out of me. If I want to say "I will always remember the day we first saw the skypeople. (PEJ)", it looks like "I" is the subject, and "day (that) we first saw the skypeople" is the memory, but this is weird because I don't know how to order the genitive of day, the "I have" construction, and the "a" modifier on day in a way that makes sense. Using the same word order as Frommer, I have:

Fratrr 'ok trrä tseng a awngal sawtuteti tse'änga layu oer.

This just looks wrong for some reason; like there's some easier (or more logical) way to say this sentence, which, you have to admit, would be said by a LOT of Na'vi in the years after the events of Avatar.

What would you all suggest?

Kayrìlien

[tsrräfkxätu]

This construction is confusing the hell out of me. If I want to say "I will always remember the day we first saw the skypeople. (PEJ)", it looks like "I" is the subject, and "day (that) we first saw the skypeople" is the memory, but this is weird because I don't know how to order the genitive of day, the "I have" construction, and the "a" modifier on day in a way that makes sense. Using the same word order as Frommer, I have:

Fratrr 'ok trrä tseng a awngal sawtuteti tse'änga layu oer.

This just looks wrong for some reason; like there's some easier (or more logical) way to say this sentence, which, you have to admit, would be said by a LOT of Na'vi in the years after the events of Avatar.

What would you all suggest?

Kayrìlien

Colloquially, I think:
Frakrr zaryerok oel trrit a nì'awve tse'änga sawtutet awngal.

Or, more eloquently:
Tì'i'avay krrä laryu oer 'ok tsatrrä a nì'awve tse'änga sawtutet awngal.

[Hawnuyu atxen]

Shouldn't it be:

Frakrr 'ok sayi oe trrur a awngal sawtuteti nì'awve tsame'änga.
always remembrance-will-make i day-DAT which we-ERG sky-people-ACC first saw-PEJ
I will always remember the day when we saw the sky people.

The main problem of your sentence was that 'ok is a noun, meaning remembrance

Colloquially, I think:
Frakrr zaryerok oel trrit a nì'awve tse'änga sawtutet awngal.

Or, a more artistic way:
Tì'i'avay krrä laryu oer 'ok tsatrrä a nì'awve tse'änga sawtutet awngal.

Call me a skxawng, but i can't understand "zaryerok" and "tì'i'avay" here...

[tsrräfkxätu]

Shouldn't it be:

Frakrr 'ok sayi oe trrur a awngal sawtuteti nì'awve tsame'änga.
always remembrance-will-make i day-DAT which we-ERG sky-people-ACC first saw-PEJ
I will always remember the day when we saw the sky people.

The main problem of your sentence was that 'ok is a noun, meaning remembrance

Colloquially, I think:
Frakrr zaryerok oel trrit a nì'awve tse'änga sawtutet awngal.

Or, a more artistic way:
Tì'i'avay krrä laryu oer 'ok tsatrrä a nì'awve tse'änga sawtutet awngal.

Call me a skxawng, but i can't understand "zaryerok" and "tì'i'avay" here...

In it's uninflected form, zerok was linked in by Mirri further down, and tì'i'avay krrä is in the dictionary.

[Hawnuyu atxen]

Ok, i understand now "tì'i'avay", but "zerok" still isn't clear to me...
Am i just blind not to see it, or it's really haven't been written here

[tsrräfkxätu]

Ok, i understand now "tì'i'avay", but "zerok" still isn't clear to me...
Am i just blind not to see it, or it's really haven't been written here

Not your fault! I forgot to mention that the link doesn't take you to the first page, where zerok is given. It means to remember.

[Hawnuyu atxen]

Okay, it was than my 2. time not knowing about that chart...
Another question: is zerok transitive?

Spoiler

sorry, a little in hungarian, just for tsrräfkxätu

Spoiler

magyarul: "emlékezni valamire", azt meg meg nem mondom, hogy az ilyeneket hogyan lehet használni na'viban... régóta érdekelne már pedig