Author Topic: Sentence for checking  (Read 808 times)

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Offline AuLekye'ung

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Sentence for checking
« on: February 01, 2010, 10:27:46 pm »
Kaltxi!

So, I took takuk mì atan txonä at creating a sentence longer than most I had attempted.

It is quite likely a complete disaster, but here goes:

Ikran maktoyä ikranìl tolawng ne kllteti na tskxe pehkrr toruk tswon.

The ikran rider's ikran dived to the ground like a rock when toruk flew.

(Also, I tried to translate "a stab in the dark" into "a strike in the light of night".)

Txo *fìzìsìst*it oel ke lu, kxawm oel tutet lepamtseo lu.  Oe pxìm fpìl nìpamtseo, oel rey letrra ayunil oeyä nìpamtseo.

- Älpert Aynstayn

Offline omängum fra'uti

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Re: Sentence for checking
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2010, 12:00:10 am »
Rider is maktoyu, so rider's would be maktoyuyä.  However it's ambiguous which "Ikran" the "Rider's" is possessing, the ergative one or the non cased one.  There is also nothing tying the "Ikran" with no case to the rest.  In this case, you might want to use Ikran as an adjective modifying rider.  Alternatively you could use the genitive.  (Ikran Rider vs Ikran's Rider/Rider of Ikran.)  However it seems almost redundant stating Ikran twice, so maybe just drop one and say "Rider's ikran", and let it be implied that a rider with an ikran would be an ikran rider.

You've got a noun case (-ti) and preposition (ne) on the same word, and so far as we know, you can't have both.  Also "pehrr" (Not "pehkrr") is a question, not a statement of time.  Just "krr" can be used as when, with an attributive "a" to the clause describing the time.

Maktoyuyä ikran tolawng klltene tskxena krr a toruk tswolon.

I'm not 100% sure on the usage of "krr" being correct there.

As for "stab in the dark" that's an idiom really so can't be directly translated...  Though I like the "light of night" phrase, considering that on Pandora, night ISN'T truly dark, it's full of bio-luminescence.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
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Offline Lance R. Casey

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Re: Sentence for checking
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2010, 04:01:33 am »
Maktoyuyä ikran tolawng klltene tskxena krr a toruk tswolon.

I'm not 100% sure on the usage of "krr" being correct there.
I'd say it is, based on Frommerian statements, and it's just a reversal of the attested a krr construction anyway.

As for the rest of the phrase, I think nìtskxe works better seeing as how it is an adverbial function we're after.

// Lance R. Casey

Offline AuLekye'ung

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Re: Sentence for checking
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2010, 07:43:50 am »
Woops, should've noticed I was using the verb as a noun...

Should also check my typing, since I meant "pehrr" rather than "pehkrr".

The main problem I was having was with deciding what noun cases to put where, which is something I've been having trouble with all the time.

If you could give me a tip on that, that would be great.

Irayo.
Txo *fìzìsìst*it oel ke lu, kxawm oel tutet lepamtseo lu.  Oe pxìm fpìl nìpamtseo, oel rey letrra ayunil oeyä nìpamtseo.

- Älpert Aynstayn

Offline Alìm Tsamsiyu

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Re: Sentence for checking
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2010, 08:34:42 am »
Maktoyuyä ikran tolawng klltene tskxena krr a toruk tswolon.

I'm not 100% sure on the usage of "krr" being correct there.
I'd say it is, based on Frommerian statements, and it's just a reversal of the attested a krr construction anyway.

As for the rest of the phrase, I think nìtskxe works better seeing as how it is an adverbial function we're after.

Yeah, I think your usage is right, ma Omängum.  I've used it before in the Na'vi nì'aw forum and I didn't get reprimanded :).

Ma Keyeunga Au:

To say "when" in a sentence when you don't want it to be a question, you can't use pehrr or krrpe as these are the question words for "what time?"  It would essentially be like saying, in English: The Ikran Rider's ikran dove to the ground like a rock what time? toruk flew.

To say it properly, it would have to be "At the time which," or, "At which time," krr a or a krr respectively.

Regarding noun cases, the ergative and accusative (-l/ìl, -t/it/ti) can only go on objects (nouns) in a sentence (they ARE noun cases, after all) and these nouns/objects must also be free to fulfill that purpose.
What I mean is, when you have a phrase like: "to the ground," you notice there is a preposition that begins the phrase (this is, oddly enough, called a prepositional phrase).
In a prepositional phrase there is a preposition that starts it and an object of the preposition.
This object is not free to fulfill another purpose other than being an object of a preposition, so it cannot be the direct object (that is, accusative) in this case.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2010, 02:50:31 pm by Alìm Tsamsiyu »
Oeyä ayswizawri tswayon alìm ulte takuk nìngay.
My arrows fly far and strike true.

Offline Kiliyä

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Re: Sentence for checking
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2010, 03:59:55 pm »
As for "stab in the dark" that's an idiom really so can't be directly translated...  Though I like the "light of night" phrase, considering that on Pandora, night ISN'T truly dark, it's full of bio-luminescence.
How about takuk ke tsuse'a, "striking without seeing"?  Similar meaning, but less appealing than atan txonyä.
Peu sa'nokyä ayoengyä?  Pefya ayoeng poeru kìte'e sayi?
Pefya ayoengìl poeti hayawnu, na poel ayoengit hawnu?

What of our mother?  How shall we serve her?  How shall we protect her as she protects us?

Offline AuLekye'ung

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Re: Sentence for checking
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2010, 05:54:04 pm »
So, if I'm understanding this correctly:

Ikranìl oeyä tolawng ne kllte a krr torukit tswolon.
My ikran dove to the ground when toruk flew.

Does the accusative belong there?

EDIT: I feel I should copyright the phrase "atan txonyä".  It's kinda neat.
Txo *fìzìsìst*it oel ke lu, kxawm oel tutet lepamtseo lu.  Oe pxìm fpìl nìpamtseo, oel rey letrra ayunil oeyä nìpamtseo.

- Älpert Aynstayn

Offline Lance R. Casey

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Re: Sentence for checking
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2010, 06:03:40 pm »
So, if I'm understanding this correctly:

Ikranìl oeyä tolawng ne kllte a krr torukit tswolon.
My ikran dove to the ground when toruk flew.

Does the accusative belong there?

No, and neither does the ergative, because neither clause is transitive:

Ikran oeyä tolawng ne kllte krr a toruk tswolon.

(Note the placement of the subordinator a; with the other order you get "when my ikran dove to the ground, the toruk flew".)

// Lance R. Casey

Offline AuLekye'ung

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Re: Sentence for checking
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2010, 07:29:18 pm »
Ahhh...

So, (Ikran oeyä) = complete subject; (tolawng (ne kllte) = prepositional phrase) = complete predicate

(krr a) = conjuction (time); (toruk tswolon) = ... what

This is terrible that I'm finding such glaring gaps in my 'ìnglìsì that it affects my Na'vi.
Txo *fìzìsìst*it oel ke lu, kxawm oel tutet lepamtseo lu.  Oe pxìm fpìl nìpamtseo, oel rey letrra ayunil oeyä nìpamtseo.

- Älpert Aynstayn

 

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