Author Topic: Speaking of falling in love....  (Read 2082 times)

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Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Speaking of falling in love....
« on: January 04, 2011, 03:04:38 pm »
While we are on the subject of love, a somewhat unusual (for English word order), somewhat idiomatic phrase is often used: I thee wed

In Na`vi, would this better be rendered

oe ngaru muntxa si

or

oe nga muntxa si

Although the first example, even in an English sense seems to convey the meaming better (and is correct usage of -ru with an intransitive verb), the second example also could be more correct because it is very direct.

aynga fpawnìl pawm

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

Offline Kemaweyan

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Re: Speaking of falling in love....
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2011, 03:19:06 pm »
I think it should be oe ngahu muntxa si (like oe ngahu mllte or oe ngahu ultxa si).
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Offline Plumps

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Re: Speaking of falling in love....
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2011, 04:05:26 pm »
I think it should be oe ngahu muntxa si (like oe ngahu mllte or oe ngahu ultxa si).

But oe ngaru mllte is also possible ;) So, both could be possible with muntxa si

Offline Kemaweyan

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Re: Speaking of falling in love....
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2011, 04:49:58 pm »

But oe ngaru mllte is also possible ;)


Hmm.. Where have we got it? I remember only this:

Quote from: Prrton
Using «mllte» in agreement with others about specific topics

I agree with you. Oe ngahu mllte. ??

Quote from: K. Pawl
Yes, that’s fine. Ngahu mllte oe.

And how is the subject of the agreement marked?

   “I agree with father that it is too far to the ocean to try to make the journey tomorrow in just one day.”

   Oe hu sempul mllte tsara txampay lìm nìhawng fte trray fmivi sivop tengkrr a trr a’aw ftem.


       OR?

   Txampay lìm nìhawng fte tengkrr a ftem trr a’aw fmivi trray sivop a tsari mllte oe hu sempul.

Quote from: K. Pawl
The thing/subject agreed on should be topicalized. "As for X, I agree with you." So use Furia/Tsaria.

It was here: http://forum.learnnavi.org/language-updates/txelanit-hivawl/
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Offline Plumps

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Re: Speaking of falling in love....
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2011, 01:43:05 am »
Hm, seems, I remember it wrong :-[ Thanks for the link, ma Kem. Always good to read up on things again

Offline Kì'eyawn

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Re: Speaking of falling in love....
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2011, 10:21:15 am »
Hmm...  I think Oe ngahu muntxa si is probably correct—but i think the dative could work here:

Oe ngaru muntxa lu.
eo Eywa oe 'ia

Fra'uri tìyawnur oe täpivìng nìwotx...

Offline Kì’onga Vul

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Re: Speaking of falling in love....
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2011, 09:48:10 pm »
Hmm...  I think Oe ngahu muntxa si is probably correct—but i think the dative could work here:

Oe ngaru muntxa lu.

On that note, if you still wanted to keep the sense of "marry" or "wed" as an action, would this make sense?

Oe ngaru slu muntxa.
學而時習之!
Did I make an error you just can't stand to let survive?  Please, correct me!  I'll give you candy or something.

Offline Kemaweyan

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Re: Speaking of falling in love....
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2011, 09:53:02 pm »
Hmm...  I think Oe ngahu muntxa si is probably correct—but i think the dative could work here:

Oe ngaru muntxa lu.

On that note, if you still wanted to keep the sense of "marry" or "wed" as an action, would this make sense?

Oe ngaru slu muntxa.

I'm not sure that we can use dative with slu :-\
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Offline Kì'eyawn

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Re: Speaking of falling in love....
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2011, 10:04:47 pm »
Hmm...  I think Oe ngahu muntxa si is probably correct—but i think the dative could work here:

Oe ngaru muntxa lu.

On that note, if you still wanted to keep the sense of "marry" or "wed" as an action, would this make sense?

Oe ngaru slu muntxa.

I'm not sure that we can use dative with slu :-\

Yeah, with slu i'd probably go with the topical.

Ngari oe slu muntxa.  Maybe?
eo Eywa oe 'ia

Fra'uri tìyawnur oe täpivìng nìwotx...

Offline Txur’Itan

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Re: Speaking of falling in love....
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2011, 10:07:20 pm »
Hmm...  I think Oe ngahu muntxa si is probably correct—but i think the dative could work here:

Oe ngaru muntxa lu.

On that note, if you still wanted to keep the sense of "marry" or "wed" as an action, would this make sense?

Oe ngaru slu muntxa.

I'm not sure that we can use dative with slu :-\

Are you concerned because of a Lack of specific Corpus citation from Paul, or some specific reasoning with slu possibly being irregular somehow?

It could be similar to Latin, which uses dative with intransitive verbs. I personally would not be sure why this would be a problem using -ru with slu.

Hmm...  I think Oe ngahu muntxa si is probably correct—but i think the dative could work here:

Oe ngaru muntxa lu.

On that note, if you still wanted to keep the sense of "marry" or "wed" as an action, would this make sense?

Oe ngaru slu muntxa.

I'm not sure that we can use dative with slu :-\

Yeah, with slu i'd probably go with the topical.

Ngari oe slu muntxa.  Maybe?

I am a big fan of Topical use. HRH!
私は太った男だ。


Offline Kemaweyan

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Re: Speaking of falling in love....
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2011, 10:15:45 pm »
Yeah, with slu i'd probably go with the topical.

Ngari oe slu muntxa.  Maybe?

Maybe :) I also thought about this ;)

Are you concerned because of a Lack of specific Corpus citation from Paul, or some specific reasoning with slu possibly being irregular somehow?

It could be similar to Latin, which uses dative with intransitive verbs. I personally would not be sure why this would be a problem using -ru with slu.

I don't know.. Actually we have no examples of usage slu with dative :) But I agree that might be possible...
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Speaking of falling in love....
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2011, 12:41:55 am »
I don't understand why slu with dative wouldn't be appropriate. It looks like it captures the meaning here very well.

Yawey ngahu!
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Offline Kä'eng

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Re: Speaking of falling in love....
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2011, 03:41:58 am »
Isn't this exactly what muntxa si is for? It's likely unidiomatic to use slu instead, even if it makes sense.
Ma evi, ke'u ke lu prrte' to fwa sim tuteot ayawne.
Slä txo tuteo fmi 'ivampi ngat ro seng, fu nìfya'o, a 'eykefu ngati vä', tsakem ke lu sìltsan.
Tsaw lu ngeyä tokx! Kawtu ke tsun nìmuiä 'ivampi ngat txo ngal ke new tsakemit.
Ha kempe si nga? Nì'awve, nga plltxe san kehe. Tsakrr, ngal tsatsengti hum!

Offline Txur’Itan

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Re: Speaking of falling in love....
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2011, 12:14:26 pm »
Isn't this exactly what muntxa si is for? It's likely unidiomatic to use slu instead, even if it makes sense.

muntxa si
mated do/make

vs.

slu yawne
become beloved

is different a bit.
私は太った男だ。


Offline Kä'eng

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Re: Speaking of falling in love....
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2011, 01:03:08 pm »
Isn't this exactly what muntxa si is for? It's likely unidiomatic to use slu instead, even if it makes sense.

muntxa si
mated do/make

vs.

slu yawne
become beloved

is different a bit.
Right, but people were suggesting slu muntxa (not slu yawne which is clearly different)
Ma evi, ke'u ke lu prrte' to fwa sim tuteot ayawne.
Slä txo tuteo fmi 'ivampi ngat ro seng, fu nìfya'o, a 'eykefu ngati vä', tsakem ke lu sìltsan.
Tsaw lu ngeyä tokx! Kawtu ke tsun nìmuiä 'ivampi ngat txo ngal ke new tsakemit.
Ha kempe si nga? Nì'awve, nga plltxe san kehe. Tsakrr, ngal tsatsengti hum!

Offline Kì'eyawn

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Re: Speaking of falling in love....
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2011, 01:16:31 pm »
Isn't this exactly what muntxa si is for? It's likely unidiomatic to use slu instead, even if it makes sense.

muntxa si
mated do/make

vs.

slu yawne
become beloved

is different a bit.
Right, but people were suggesting slu muntxa (not slu yawne which is clearly different)

I think the issue here is that muntxa si is perceived to refer to, erm, "doing the deed"—sealing the deal, if you will.  But because most human cultures have a marriage ceremony or something equivalent before the act of consummation, we're looking for a way to describe that event in which two people become each other's mates.

In the movie, Neytiri says after the fact, "We are mated before Eywa."  Either she's suddenly decided to bust out an archaic form of English past tense, or she's using the word "mated" as an adjective.  So, if she can say "We are mated" to the other Omatikaya (Moe lu muntxa), i see no inherent reason why people cannot slu muntxa.  It's possibly not the appropriate idiom, though:  Moe slolu muntxatu might be the "Na'vi" way of saying it.

eo Eywa oe 'ia

Fra'uri tìyawnur oe täpivìng nìwotx...

Offline Txur’Itan

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Re: Speaking of falling in love....
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2011, 01:47:42 pm »
Isn't this exactly what muntxa si is for? It's likely unidiomatic to use slu instead, even if it makes sense.

muntxa si
mated do/make

vs.

slu yawne
become beloved

is different a bit.
Right, but people were suggesting slu muntxa (not slu yawne which is clearly different)

I think the issue here is that muntxa si is perceived to refer to, erm, "doing the deed"—sealing the deal, if you will.  But because most human cultures have a marriage ceremony or something equivalent before the act of consummation, we're looking for a way to describe that event in which two people become each other's mates.

In the movie, Neytiri says after the fact, "We are mated before Eywa."  Either she's suddenly decided to bust out an archaic form of English past tense, or she's using the word "mated" as an adjective.  So, if she can say "We are mated" to the other Omatikaya (Moe lu muntxa), i see no inherent reason why people cannot slu muntxa.  It's possibly not the appropriate idiom, though:  Moe slolu muntxatu might be the "Na'vi" way of saying it.


If you were to take here choice of English word order,

"We are mated before Eywa, it is done."

and convert each word, I think we get this.

"Moe muntxa eo Eywa lolu."
私は太った男だ。


Offline Sireayä mokri

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Re: Speaking of falling in love....
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2011, 01:58:11 pm »
In one of deleted scenes ("The Challenge") Neytiri says "Eo Eywa moe muntxa slolu".
When the mirror speaks, the reflection lies.

Offline Txur’Itan

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Re: Speaking of falling in love....
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2011, 02:02:14 pm »
In one of deleted scenes ("The Challenge") Neytiri says "Eo Eywa moe muntxa slolu".

That is probably the correct phrase nìNa'vi.
私は太った男だ。


Offline Kì'eyawn

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Re: Speaking of falling in love....
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2011, 02:19:22 pm »
In one of deleted scenes ("The Challenge") Neytiri says "Eo Eywa moe muntxa slolu".

That is probably the correct phrase nìNa'vi.

Agreed.  I'd say we can treat that as a canon-approved way to express this idea.

TANGENT:  I wonder if the closest Na'vi equivalent of the human marriage ceremony would be that time after the fact when it is made known to the clan that they have mated.
eo Eywa oe 'ia

Fra'uri tìyawnur oe täpivìng nìwotx...

 

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