Main Menu

I have to go

Started by Lolet, January 10, 2011, 09:22:07 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Teylar Ta Palulukankelku

QuoteI hope she hasn't changed too much, I said before, she's the life of the spam board :/

Me too  :'(.
Set oe slolu Kxitx, hifkeyä ska'ayu

The spam section: Where the random s**t happens ;D.

I can't deny it: I'm a smiley addict ;D.

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

hemmond

Quote from: Teylar Ta Palulukankelku on February 04, 2011, 01:24:29 PM
Quote from: Eanikran te Txuronyu Ateyo'itan on February 04, 2011, 01:18:08 PM
Quote from: archaic on February 04, 2011, 11:56:41 AM
Twenty five days in, six to go.

|ll|l   ll|ll   

  l|ll/   lll/l  

  \|)l/
Six painfully slow days :(

I miss oeyä tsmuké  :'(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *cries*

BTW: How do you think she'll react when she sees what we've written in this thread  ????
She should show this to her parents... If she decides to (and if she do it, I hope, that she won't have any troubles afterwards...)
old gallery link?id=1849[/img]
old gallery link?id=1890[/img]

http://twitter.com/hemmondssandbox

If it's change in you, then the world is changing too.
--22nd World Scout Jamboree anthem.

ExLibrisMortis

So, I just wanted to say a few things after reading this thread.

First off, its really heart warming to see a bunch of people, whom have never met in real life, care so much for a single person that the only thing they shared with them, that regarded anything close to being a relationship, was the exchange of a few characters.

Next off, This one being directed to mostly the other posters on this thread. Now, despite whatever situations that you find yourself in, when you start to curse, throw out insults, and take the argument to an Ad Hominem sense, you lose all validity in your own argument.

And Finally, this one is directed more towards the parents. Freedom of speech, association, and thought is some of the most shining achievements that have ever been accomplished by Humanity, ever. To suppress any of that is purely taking steps back and washing away any work and blood paid to accomplish this great feat. Yet, no matter what, as a parent it is your right to teach you child what you wish, impose what restrictions you want, and raise them in the way you deem most fit. Yet, let me offer a bit of advice from some personal experience regarding this.

In my religious background there is a group of people, as with most religious background, that tend to shelter their children from every evil that they can conceivably keep their kids away from. Most of them are very successful at this, and all throughout their child's childhood experience, they are good kids, obeying their parents, and general seen to be good kids by other people looking at them. This is all good and dandy, they get good grades in school and general have a few good friends. Then when it comes to the point that they have to move out and go to college, live on their own, or get married something rather interesting happens. They fall apart. This is strange because through their whole upbringing they lived good lives, well structured, and well mannered. But what they were missing was that opposition, that contradiction in their life. Think about it, if you were to feed your child all their upbringing nothing but honey, would they really know honey to be sweet if they had nothing to compare it to? The answer is no, simply because they wouldn't have anything to compare it to.

Everyone needs that refiner's fire. The idea is not to shelter ourselves from our trials and tribulations, but to power through them, overcome them, and learn from them. It's painful many of the times to watch someone you love dearly go through pain, get hurt, and stumble and fall, but really, it does make them stronger. It teaches them to stand on their own; give them a level of confidence that they can look back and say they accomplished these things on their own. Yes, as parents you must protect them and watch over them, but to shelter them is to do ever worse damage.

Eyamsiyu

ExLib couldn't have said it better.

I miss Lolet too, but we can miss Lolet and not let our language become half-filled with profanities.  A lot of the messages that contained these words were geared toward her parents.  TBH, if they read that, it would give them even more reason to keep her from coming back here (FYI, they already hate that she comes here).  And I really don't want her permanently banned for our choice of words.

Which is why I want to move for deletion of this thread.


"... The only people that are going to have a chance to make a living playing music is the people who do exactly what they believe in ... they have to believe in this so much that they are ready to die for it." - Jojo Mayer

On indefinite leave.  Will be back periodically. Feel free to say Kaltxí: I'll get back when I can. :D

My facebook.  Please mention you are from LN if you ch

archaic

Quote from: archaic on February 04, 2011, 11:56:41 AM
Twenty five days in, six to go.

l|l   |ll   

  |l/   l/l  

  )l/   /l /   

\
Multiple brutally obvious problems fixed.  :o
Pasha, an Avatar story, my most recent fanfic, Avatar related, now complete.

The Dragon Affair my last fanfic, non Avatar related.

Teylar Ta Palulukankelku

Quote from: Eyamsiyu on February 04, 2011, 03:34:59 PM
ExLib couldn't have said it better.

I miss Lolet too, but we can miss Lolet and not let our language become half-filled with profanities.  A lot of the messages that contained these words were geared toward her parents.  TBH, if they read that, it would give them even more reason to keep her from coming back here (FYI, they already hate that she comes here).  And I really don't want her permanently banned for our choice of words.

Which is why I want to move for deletion of this thread.

I say they should come online here and speak for themselves  >:(! Banning their daughter won't help. Probably only make things worse. She might stop loving them if they play their cards wrong. I know i would if my parents manicly controlled who i socialize with  >:(! Then they'll feel sorry  >:(! And if they come here and read this thread, then they shouldn't blame their daughter. She isn't the one that's been talking crap. We have. And if they can't tolerate critique: TOO BAD FOR THEM  >:(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In fact: If they come here and say something, i will insist, with all of my heart, that they keep their daughter out of this. She isn't responsable for our words. We are. I will blame myself for my own actions again and again, until they understand  >:(!

In some ways, i agree with you, Eyamsiyu, but i say we keep this thread as an example of the fact that people's opinions cannot be silenced.
Set oe slolu Kxitx, hifkeyä ska'ayu

The spam section: Where the random s**t happens ;D.

I can't deny it: I'm a smiley addict ;D.

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

ExLibrisMortis

There is a difference in taking constructive critique and destructive critique. Constructive is assisting the change of protocol and actions. Destructive is attacking the person with "NO U!" statements and generally bad language.

Ekirä

Quote from: ExLibrisMortis on February 04, 2011, 05:42:43 PM
There is a difference in taking constructive critique and destructive critique. Constructive is assisting the change of protocol and actions. Destructive is attacking the person with "NO U!" statements and generally bad language.

I agree. It's all right to be outraged in outrageous situations, but there does come a time when after awhile if you keep saying how outrageous it is, people will see less of your argument than if you kept it civil....

Eyamsiyu

Quote from: Ekirä on February 04, 2011, 05:53:16 PM
Quote from: ExLibrisMortis on February 04, 2011, 05:42:43 PM
There is a difference in taking constructive critique and destructive critique. Constructive is assisting the change of protocol and actions. Destructive is attacking the person with "NO U!" statements and generally bad language.

I agree. It's all right to be outraged in outrageous situations, but there does come a time when after awhile if you keep saying how outrageous it is, people will see less of your argument than if you kept it civil....

Unless everyone else is of the same mindset... then you have Egypt... :(

Handling things civilly will work out most times... but when people in power block that, it only allows the problem to be handled in a violent manner (JFK).


"... The only people that are going to have a chance to make a living playing music is the people who do exactly what they believe in ... they have to believe in this so much that they are ready to die for it." - Jojo Mayer

On indefinite leave.  Will be back periodically. Feel free to say Kaltxí: I'll get back when I can. :D

My facebook.  Please mention you are from LN if you ch

Sіr. Ηaxalot

Quote from: ExLibrisMortis on February 04, 2011, 02:06:22 PM
So, I just wanted to say a few things after reading this thread.
*walloftext*

Thats it! This is exactly what this thread needs. Her parents would probably have a really hard time arguing against that without making themselves look stupid. I fully agree that screaming and swearing isn't the way to deal with this kind of people. Massive swearing, cursing and Destructive critique doesn't lead anywhere, it might just piss them off. But that post takes a whole different approach, making her parents feel a bit guilty.

Eanikran

Quote from: Sir. Haxalot on February 04, 2011, 06:43:49 PM
Quote from: ExLibrisMortis on February 04, 2011, 02:06:22 PM
So, I just wanted to say a few things after reading this thread.
*walloftext*

Thats it! This is exactly what this thread needs. Her parents would probably have a really hard time arguing against that without making themselves look stupid. I fully agree that screaming and swearing isn't the way to deal with this kind of people. Massive swearing, cursing and Destructive critique doesn't lead anywhere, it might just piss them off. But that post takes a whole different approach, making her parents feel a bit guilty.
Mllte oe. Maybe she will show that post to them when she comes back and sees it.


hemmond

Quote from: Eyamsiyu on February 04, 2011, 03:34:59 PM
Which is why I want to move for deletion of this thread.
Make new board, set that board accessible only from... 100 posts? (or from 2nd star, idk exactly how forum is set), move this thread to that topic and if Lolet wants to show all this to her parents, then she will, otherwise they won't have acces to this... Unless they're on the forum too and they posted here more than _ messages. And in that case, they should undestand, who we are and why are we sad about Lolet's banning...

And I know, that constructive critics is good, but only for persons who are willing to listen.  Stargate Ark of Truth, there were nice quotation:
QuoteWe believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, through argument and debate, but, most of all, freedom of will. I will not compromise the fundamental tenants of my devotion in order to preserve it.
This quotation I like because it's true... And we should keep it on our minds every time.
old gallery link?id=1849[/img]
old gallery link?id=1890[/img]

http://twitter.com/hemmondssandbox

If it's change in you, then the world is changing too.
--22nd World Scout Jamboree anthem.

ExLibrisMortis

Quote from: hemmond on February 04, 2011, 07:18:17 PM
QuoteWe believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, through argument and debate, but, most of all, freedom of will. I will not compromise the fundamental tenants of my devotion in order to preserve it.
This quotation I like because it's true... And we should keep it on our minds every time.

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
Aristotle

Just to accompany your quote.

Teylar Ta Palulukankelku

#133
I just wish there was some ``nice´´ way to provoke them and make them pissed off  >:(! Make them pay for what they've done, as in ``If you keep doing what you do then this happens´´  >:(! I won't let them get away for what they've done  >:(! Plus: I've always wanted to see how conservativly christian american responds to critique. Heard they're terrible at making good argument at defending themselves  ;D!

And about the swearing: I swear sometimes because i feel like all other sorts of words can't stress enough what i feel  :(. It's not just frustrating, it's f***ing frustrating  >:(!

And ExLibrisMortis: Do you really think that cursing when you state your arguments make them lose their validity? I curse to do the exact opposite. I'm not just pissed, i'm f***ing pissed, beacuase, again, all other sorts of words can't stress enough what i feel.

QuoteThere is a difference in taking constructive critique and destructive critique. Constructive is assisting the change of protocol and actions. Destructive is attacking the person with "NO U!" statements and generally bad language.

Did i (or anyone else  ????) say the argument were meant to be constructive  >:(? My arguments are used as means to demoralize bossy parents  >:(.

QuoteA lot of the messages that contained these words were geared toward her parents.

If i remember correctly, when i cursed, i did it against control-freak parents as a whole, not any single parent. And just because i despise what they do doesn't necesserily mean i despise them  >:(. And if they choose to interprit critique toward their actions as critique against themselves, then TOO BAD FOR THEM  >:(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's not ok to do what they do just because they may have a bad temper  >:(. IMO bad temper is just an excuse to avoid critique  >:(. And if they want to have an outburst of temper, then go ahead  >:(!  

Set oe slolu Kxitx, hifkeyä ska'ayu

The spam section: Where the random s**t happens ;D.

I can't deny it: I'm a smiley addict ;D.

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Sіr. Ηaxalot

Well, if you use a lot of cursing and make the impression you surely get closer to the "goal" of pissing them off. But that doesn't solve the problem, pissing off her parents isn't good for anyone. The best solution is still to make them feel guilty.

ExLibrisMortis

Teylar, I consider myself one of those "conservatively Christian Americans". I have some very deep rooted, bible based morals and values in which I live by, and conduct my life accordingly. Now, to put that aside and get to the real point.

Yes, I do really believe that cursing in an argument loses your validity. Why? Because it shows that you have given in to the natural man, you have belittled yourself by allowing anger and emotion into flood your position. Change, and real change, comes from taking a logical and and thoughtful dissection of some core values and principles.

I don't understand how you think that cursing allows you to do "the exact opposite". For when a person curses it shows that they are no longer capable of carrying out an intelligent discussion, and have reached such a point of frustration, that no longer can they formulate a clear and concise statement that consists of more than four letter derogatory words. Think about it, flip the roles. Say someone disagreed with the way you carried yourself. You, for whatever reason, be it religion, social, environmental, have a very deeply rooted moral and value in said way you carry yourself. Then when you try to enforce said value, you are instantly cursed out and immediately attacked at your person. What's your first reaction? Well, I'm going to tell you what the majority of humans will do as their first reaction. They will either intensify their enforcement, which in this case is not the goal you want to achieve, or they will wall up and disconnect completely from the foreign aggressor, which is definitely not the goal you want.

And you can't say, "Oh, then that's their damn fault for being so sensitive", because as the sender of any message, you are also, whether it be indirectly or directly, responsible for the reaction of the receiver of said message. There are many ways to construct any argument to illicit a certain response out of people. Blatantly, giving in to carnal ways of swearing and Ad hominem attacks is the one of the lowest forms of wit. Now, I'm guilty of such actions too, by no means am I even close to being considered for sainthood, but nevertheless I've seen my times and dealt with many walks of people.

To specifically claim that your argument is meant to be destructive, to tear down not only the values of the parents, but to directly challenge their authority, is supposed to help this situation? I mean you guys continue to claim that you want them to read this thread, and you expect you swearing at them is supposed to make it better? Well, I'm gonna tell you right now, its going to not only make it worse,  but a lot worse. It could very easily turn it from a situation of a months ban, to permanent removal.

Teylar Ta Palulukankelku

#136
Quote from: ExLibrisMortis on February 05, 2011, 10:11:21 AM
Teylar, I consider myself one of those "conservatively Christian Americans". I have some very deep rooted, bible based morals and values in which I live by, and conduct my life accordingly. Now, to put that aside and get to the real point.

Yes, I do really believe that cursing in an argument loses your validity. Why? Because it shows that you have given in to the natural man, you have belittled yourself by allowing anger and emotion into flood your position. Change, and real change, comes from taking a logical and and thoughtful dissection of some core values and principles.

I don't understand how you think that cursing allows you to do "the exact opposite". For when a person curses it shows that they are no longer capable of carrying out an intelligent discussion, and have reached such a point of frustration, that no longer can they formulate a clear and concise statement that consists of more than four letter derogatory words. Think about it, flip the roles. Say someone disagreed with the way you carried yourself. You, for whatever reason, be it religion, social, environmental, have a very deeply rooted moral and value in said way you carry yourself. Then when you try to enforce said value, you are instantly cursed out and immediately attacked at your person. What's your first reaction? Well, I'm going to tell you what the majority of humans will do as their first reaction. They will either intensify their enforcement, which in this case is not the goal you want to achieve, or they will wall up and disconnect completely from the foreign aggressor, which is definitely not the goal you want.

And you can't say, "Oh, then that's their damn fault for being so sensitive", because as the sender of any message, you are also, whether it be indirectly or directly, responsible for the reaction of the receiver of said message. There are many ways to construct any argument to illicit a certain response out of people. Blatantly, giving in to carnal ways of swearing and Ad hominem attacks is the one of the lowest forms of wit. Now, I'm guilty of such actions too, by no means am I even close to being considered for sainthood, but nevertheless I've seen my times and dealt with many walks of people.

To specifically claim that your argument is meant to be destructive, to tear down not only the values of the parents, but to directly challenge their authority, is supposed to help this situation? I mean you guys continue to claim that you want them to read this thread, and you expect you swearing at them is supposed to make it better? Well, I'm gonna tell you right now, its going to not only make it worse,  but a lot worse. It could very easily turn it from a situation of a months ban, to permanent removal.

You have good arguments  :).

However, if provocation wasn't allowed anywhere, it would hardly be any change. I treat this situation like i'm questioning a dictatorship. Unless critique is made, your voice will not be heard. And i can't believe you're saying we should just sit here and do nothing  >:(! Arrogant people needs to have their authority questioned. Hell, even the fact that they think they have the right to dictate is arrogant  >:(! Sorry for seeming like such a reformist, but i belive the right to be able to compromise and be compromised with is a right everyone should have, even if it's forced upon them  >:(.

And, about the ``Sorry you're damn sensitive´´-statement: I only said that because i think sensitivity isn't an excuse to avoid critique. Nothing is.

You consider yourself a ``conservativly christian american´´. Therefore i ask you: Would you do the same thing to Lolet, if you were her father? I've never been to America, but i've heard what you could consider horror stories of child abuse, parental dictatorship, fanatic religious raising of children and paranoid parents (mostly from talkshows, i.e. Oprah, Dr. Phil and Montel Williams show). After hearing those things, i think conservativly christian americans have been given a bad name in my eyes. I feel disgusted every time i hear a preaching fanatical american  >:(.  

What also angers me is that it seems you claim that showing emotion while making a statement makes the statement invalid  >:(. I swear to stress my personal involvment, not because i run out of words  >:(.

Sorry for all the anger i express  :(. I feel like a ``Mental Atlas´´, which means i feel like i carry the weight of the world on my shoulders, like the titan Atlas does with the Earth. I feel responsibility to take action and fight for what i think is right. Do you feel like this sometimes? I gotta tell ya: It feels like a painful burden when it comes. And don't worry: I don't suffer in silence. I've just talked to my parents about this. About parental dictatorship, Lolet, everything.
Set oe slolu Kxitx, hifkeyä ska'ayu

The spam section: Where the random s**t happens ;D.

I can't deny it: I'm a smiley addict ;D.

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Sіr. Ηaxalot

Reading a few pages back, I think that you might be taking this swearing critic a bit to personal. You don't swear extremely much except in this part, which is pretty excessive :P


The rest I think might be a result of that swearing is a lot more 'casual' in Swedish, and that you've transferred that into the English.

ExLibrisMortis

To answer your queries in turn, they'll be in a respective order.

First off, it seems you have missed the entirety of what I have been saying. I have not said that you should not critique, for it is always the responsibility of the governed to question the governors. No matter what situation you are in, you are always supposed to question the validity of the those whom dictate certain aspects of your life. What I have been saying is the the way in which you are going about doing it is not only entirely wrong, but completely counter productive to the goal in which you are trying to achieve. By cursing, attacking the parents directly, you are only going to achieve the two outcomes that I stated in my previous post. The way it will be most effectively complete is by showing people the error of their ways by clear and concise arguments. Yes, cursing sometimes gets the job done, but it is usually a cause to a more extremely volatile situation which the outcome is much less clear, and most of the times no where near desired.

Regarding your question about if I was her father, well, first off I'm not her father so I can't truly understand the full reasons as to why she was banned. Remember it could not only be just because of the topic of conversation here, but it could be a whole slue of other issues, i.e. her not doing her chores, bad grades in school, participating in illegal activity, etc. Now, if it truly is because of the context of this website, well, there's little that can be done regarding that, but thats besides the point. Honestly, although I claim to be a Christian American with Conservative values, I don't completely shut my mind to anything that may challenge my beliefs and may be construed as being anti-Christianity. What you tend to see on TV is the media's portrayal of Christianity. They wish to demonize it as much as they can for whatever reason they are doing it for. I don't speculate on the why, I just know for a fact that they do. Same thing with the parent thing, the actual amount that do that in comparison to those that don't, is far, far smaller.

Now back to your question, my answer would be yes. I would restrict things that my child enjoys to do if they have broken a commitment of some sort, like the ones i mentioned above. Now would I do it to restrict interaction with people, thats a definite maybe. Mainly because I have grown in an age where I've seen the internet grow and flourish into the great thing it is, and the great cess pool it is also. You have to imagine these parents, the most of them grew up without the internet, are learning what is actually on the internet by second or third hand sources. With most of this information portraying only the bad things about the internet, just like the media in regards to parenting in America. Right off the bat they are wary about their child's safety from predators and all sorts of bad influences. So, personally, I would have to check and makes sure that what my child is looking at and/or visiting is relatively safe. Following as such, if it seems ok, then by all means, go for it. But if after I had grounded my child from a certain website for a month and came back seeing a "goodbye" thread being filled with almost 3-4 pages of obscenities, with practically all of them challenging my authority as a parent, I would disallow that website altogether. Why? Because that single thread would validate all my suspicions and questions about the website on it being destructive and hate filled. Of course, I know this to not be true, but if I were in that situation, then yes, I would disallow access to this website.

Ok, about the emotion thing, I may have been a little misleading. Everything we do as human beings has some level of emotion attached to it, or else we simply wouldn't do it. The issue is, is that in society today, no matter what society, derogatory terms and swearing is a sign of the lowest forms of wit and also the greatest forms of anger and hatred. You may not be wanting to portray such a message, but thats just how it is in society. The initial reaction you get to someone yelling at you, or attacking you, is either the wall goes up and the argument is no longer listened to, our you just handed the victory over to your opponent. By carrying out intelligent, clear, and concise conversation does your opinion become highly validated, but also the opponent becomes confounded, concedes, or simply admires you for being able to remain civil in disagreement.


Eyamsiyu

... and with that, I urge people to please go back and edit their posts where they may have used profanities, especially in excess.

IDK about you, I would hate myself for getting a friend banned for good because of my language.


"... The only people that are going to have a chance to make a living playing music is the people who do exactly what they believe in ... they have to believe in this so much that they are ready to die for it." - Jojo Mayer

On indefinite leave.  Will be back periodically. Feel free to say Kaltxí: I'll get back when I can. :D

My facebook.  Please mention you are from LN if you ch