Author Topic: The audio-recordings in the vocabulary  (Read 871 times)

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Offline Tanax

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The audio-recordings in the vocabulary
« on: January 13, 2010, 05:05:53 pm »
Hi!

I'm really confused by some of the recordings on the website vocabulary section.
Some of them contradicts with everything that all the guides have said.

For instance, if you listen to "rikx", he says it with an english r and not a spanish(or swedish) r like all the guides have told us it should be.
Another example is the "ätxäle" where he puts in a K in the prounounciation which totally blew me away. As far as I know, tx is supposed to be a T with a clicking sound, not a T with a "k". If you listen to "rutxe" he prounounce it the way I've learned it. If I were to spell his prounounciation it would something like "rutte" with a clicking sound on the T. Sounds almost like a hi-hat on the drums. But when he pronounce the tx in ätxäle, it sounds like "ättkale" with a clicking sound on the T. He doesn't even pronounce the second ä, it sounds more like an A when he says it.

My question is; Is all the pronounciations in the vocabulary correct? Because if they are, probably ALL of the guides so far are wrong and should be updated immediately.

Just for the record, I'm not trying to be rude or anything. I'm just concerned because if he says it correct.. then I have learned completely wrong, and a lot of other people as well(since I've heard people in Skype saying tx sound the way like I have learned).

Kind regards,
Tanax

Offline Ftiafpi

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Re: The audio-recordings in the vocabulary
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2010, 05:23:13 pm »
For instance, if you listen to "rikx", he says it with an english r and not a spanish(or swedish) r like all the guides have told us it should be.
Whoops, I'll fix that tonight. No idea where that English r came from.

Quote
Another example is the "ätxäle" where he puts in a K in the prounounciation which totally blew me away. As far as I know, tx is supposed to be a T with a clicking sound, not a T with a "k".
It's actually the start of the ä that's making it sound like a k (ahh-t'-ahh-ll-eh) but you're right, that does sound too much like a k, I will re-do this one.

Quote
My question is; Is all the pronounciations in the vocabulary correct? Because if they are, probably ALL of the guides so far are wrong and should be updated immediately.
No, the guides are always right over the spoken vocab. I am only human and will (quite often) make mistakes. The spoken vocab is a work in progress and, while 95% right, is still occasionally wrong or in need of revision. Thank you for pointing these mistakes out, they will be fixed tonight.

Quote
Just for the record, I'm not trying to be rude or anything. I'm just concerned because if he says it correct.. then I have learned completely wrong, and a lot of other people as well(since I've heard people in Skype saying tx sound the way like I have learned).
Yes, this is the problem with this kind of a project, we don't want people to be learning things the wrong way and developing bad habits. That said, I think this is too useful of a tool so the risk of errors during the development is worth it. If you want to contribute to the project (such as proofing future additions) go to this thread: http://forum.learnnavi.org/your-projects-other-resources/na%27vi-spoken-dialog/
« Last Edit: January 13, 2010, 05:26:48 pm by Ftiafpi »

Offline Nìwotxkrr Tìyawn

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Re: The audio-recordings in the vocabulary
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2010, 05:29:12 pm »
Another correction tìkawng sounds like hih-hawng.
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Offline Tanax

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Re: The audio-recordings in the vocabulary
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2010, 05:34:35 pm »
For instance, if you listen to "rikx", he says it with an english r and not a spanish(or swedish) r like all the guides have told us it should be.
Whoops, I'll fix that tonight. No idea where that English r came from.

Quote
Another example is the "ätxäle" where he puts in a K in the prounounciation which totally blew me away. As far as I know, tx is supposed to be a T with a clicking sound, not a T with a "k".
It's actually the start of the ä that's making it sound like a k (ahh-t'-ahh-ll-eh) but you're right, that does sound too much like a k, I will re-do this one.

Quote
My question is; Is all the pronounciations in the vocabulary correct? Because if they are, probably ALL of the guides so far are wrong and should be updated immediately.
No, the guides are always right over the spoken vocab. I am only human and will (quite often) make mistakes. The spoken vocab is a work in progress and, while 95% right, is still occasionally wrong or in need of revision. Thank you for pointing these mistakes out, they will be fixed tonight.

Quote
Just for the record, I'm not trying to be rude or anything. I'm just concerned because if he says it correct.. then I have learned completely wrong, and a lot of other people as well(since I've heard people in Skype saying tx sound the way like I have learned).
Yes, this is the problem with this kind of a project, we don't want people to be learning things the wrong way and developing bad habits. That said, I think this is too useful of a tool so the risk of errors during the development is worth it. If you want to contribute to the project (such as proofing future additions) go to this thread: http://forum.learnnavi.org/your-projects-other-resources/na%27vi-spoken-dialog/

Sorry if I came off as rude, I know we're all humans! I just wanted to ensure if this was an error by the speaking person or if it was an error by the learning person(me).

Glad to hear such a fast response! Sounds great that you will be able to correct it already tonight.
I'll be happy to help as much as I can! I love Na'vi so... :)

Eywa ngahu ma tsmukan.

Offline Ftiafpi

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Re: The audio-recordings in the vocabulary
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2010, 05:35:38 pm »
Another correction tìkawng sounds like hih-hawng.

Someone double check me on this but I'm pretty sure that's correct since the t and k should be un-aspirated. The k does sound a little buried in there though, I'll do a revision just to be sure.

Offline Nìwotxkrr Tìyawn

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Re: The audio-recordings in the vocabulary
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2010, 05:37:15 pm »
Another correction tìkawng sounds like hih-hawng.

Someone double check me on this but I'm pretty sure that's correct since the t and k should be un-aspirated. The k does sound a little buried in there though, I'll do a revision just to be sure.

I didn't realize about the t and k thing. I guess even pronunciation commies have things to learn.
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Offline Ftiafpi

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Re: The audio-recordings in the vocabulary
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2010, 05:38:46 pm »
Sorry if I came off as rude, I know we're all humans! I just wanted to ensure if this was an error by the speaking person or if it was an error by the learning person(me).

Glad to hear such a fast response! Sounds great that you will be able to correct it already tonight.
I'll be happy to help as much as I can! I love Na'vi so... :)

Eywa ngahu ma tsmukan.

Oh no, not at all, this is something that must be 100% right so if there's ever a concern with my (or any other recorded pronunciation) I want to know about it. I just wanted to stress that what's written in the guides is right (from what we know) and what I speak is just an approximation of how it should sound.

Yeah, I have it setup so that most of the stuff that references the sound files links to only one source so that if I change that source everything auto-updates.

Offline Ftiafpi

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Re: The audio-recordings in the vocabulary
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2010, 05:40:40 pm »
Another correction tìkawng sounds like hih-hawng.

Someone double check me on this but I'm pretty sure that's correct since the t and k should be un-aspirated. The k does sound a little buried in there though, I'll do a revision just to be sure.

I didn't realize about the t and k thing. I guess even pronunciation commies have things to learn.

Yeah, threw me for a loop (still does):

Quote
The plosives p t k and the affricate ts are tenuis, as in Spanish or French. In final position, they are unreleased...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenuis_consonant
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreleased_stop

The best example of the unreleased letters being spoken by Frommer is when he says "ngaru lu fpom srak" and the k on srak is very clearly unreleased. Also in the same clip, very hard to hear since he goes so fast, the p in fpom is definitely unaspirated.

Though, I think I could do that word clearer so I'll go back and look at the word and see if I can clean it up.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2010, 05:44:27 pm by Ftiafpi »

 

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