The first IPA chart on learnnavi.org has some mistakes.

Started by CapitalOneBanksy, August 08, 2014, 01:34:32 PM

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CapitalOneBanksy

Hello! I'm a newcomer to Na'vi and this forum in general, so I went to the phonetics section of the site first. As a conlanger, I've learned a good amount of IPA. I have some corrections to make about the IPA you provided in the first chart. Here they are.
a   a   aah   "father"
This is incorrect. The correct IPA for the <a> sound in 'father' is /ɑ/.
ll   -   lll   "table"
I don't get what you mean. Do you mean the retroflex l, /ʟ/?
r   r   rrd
In the read more section, you labled it as the alveolar tap, and the correct IPA for the alveolar tap is /ɾ/.
rr   -   trtrtr   Strongly trilled "r"
The strongly trilled "r" is /r/.
tx   t!      
kx   k!      
px   p!
/!/ is a click sound. These are ejectives. the correct IPA for those in order is /k'/, /t'/, and /p'/.

That's all I have. Sorry if I come off as rude to you guys, I'm just wanna help out the next guy that comes here and gets a bit confused. Bye!

Tìtstewan

Kaltxì ulte Zola'u nìprrte'!

Well, it seems the website need some updates. Thanks for reporting those mistakes. :)

Quote from: CapitalOneBanksy on August 08, 2014, 01:34:32 PMHere they are.
a   a   aah   "father"
This is incorrect. The correct IPA for the <a> sound in 'father' is /ɑ/.
In the official dictionary a is used. Maybe the "father" exampel should be replaced by a better one.

Quote from: CapitalOneBanksy on August 08, 2014, 01:34:32 PM
ll   -   lll   "table"
I don't get what you mean. Do you mean the retroflex l, /ʟ/?
Well, this should be (I used unicode: 1E37) The sound is supposed to be like in [table] or [people]
ll is a pseudo-vowel

Quote from: CapitalOneBanksy on August 08, 2014, 01:34:32 PM
r   r   rrd
In the read more section, you labled it as the alveolar tap, and the correct IPA for the alveolar tap is /ɾ/.
This should be indeed ɾ

Quote from: CapitalOneBanksy on August 08, 2014, 01:34:32 PM
rr   -   trtrtr   Strongly trilled "r"
The strongly trilled "r" is /r/.
The IPA for this letter should be this: (I used unicode: 1E5B)
rr is also a pseudo-vowel

Quote from: CapitalOneBanksy on August 08, 2014, 01:34:32 PM
tx   t!      
kx   k!      
px   p!
/!/ is a click sound. These are ejectives. the correct IPA for those in order is /k'/, /t'/, and /p'/.
Agree,
   U+0070 (p), U+02BC
   U+0074 (t), U+02BC
   U+006B (k), U+02BC

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`Eylan Ayfalulukanä

Interesting. That must be a very old page, as most of the rest of the IPA is correct in the dictionary (don't know about the ll IPA, though).

The use of 02BC for the ejective mark is interesting. It is also recommended as the character to use for tìftang, the glottal stop. When posting here from home, that is the character I use.

You might want to go over to dothraki.org and look at the IPA symbols used for Dothraki and the various dialects of Valyrian. I think they should be correct, but maybe not.

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

Tirea Aean

#3
Quote from: CapitalOneBanksy on August 08, 2014, 01:34:32 PM
Hello! I'm a newcomer to Na'vi and this forum in general, so I went to the phonetics section of the site first. As a conlanger, I've learned a good amount of IPA. I have some corrections to make about the IPA you provided in the first chart. Here they are.
a   a   aah   "father"
This is incorrect. The correct IPA for the <a> sound in 'father' is /ɑ/.

The ipa is [a] but the English example is not that sound, but a mere closest example in English we could think of. If you have an English example that uses this sound, let me know and I'll change it. It's the open front unrounded.

Quotell   -   lll   "table"
I don't get what you mean. Do you mean the retroflex l, /ʟ/?

This is a syllabic L sound, front and light. Table is a HORRIBLE example to use if you're in the United States. We have such a dark and back L sound. which is exactly what the Na'vi L is not.

Quoter   r   rrd
In the read more section, you labled it as the alveolar tap, and the correct IPA for the alveolar tap is /ɾ/.

Will change. Nice catch.

Quote
rr   -   trtrtr   Strongly trilled "r"
The strongly trilled "r" is /r/.
will update.

Quote
tx   t!      
kx   k!      
px   p!
/!/ is a click sound. These are ejectives. the correct IPA for those in order is /k'/, /t'/, and /p'/.
:O do these Really have ! there? You're so right. I'll change this too.

QuoteThat's all I have. Sorry if I come off as rude to you guys, I'm just wanna help out the next guy that comes here and gets a bit confused. Bye!
No, thank you for this. We hate to put incorrect stuff out there. In fact this is worth a +1


Sorry for the TERRIBLE examples. It's just that we have many many many people come try to learn and they are unable to understand or read IPA so we needed to put some kind of English examples there. These are, I admit, not at all the greatest examples of these sounds. Regional accents and all that such really put this to ruin. IPA is the only really good way to know these sounds but if you can't read IPA... you need to hear them to know them.

EDIT: Main site changes committed.

Tìtstewan

Ma Tirea, you use just /r/ at the rr instead /ṛ/ (a r with a dot below). :)

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Tirea Aean

ah yes. I put the alveolar trill, but forgot to specify that it is syllabic. Nice catch. I'll edit that now. I've also done many other edits across the rest of the Resources pages today. :)

Tìtstewan

I see what you did thar. ;D



Number chart

0   1   2   3   4   5   6   7
0kew   vol   mevol   pxevol   tsìvol   mrrvol   puvol   kivol
1'aw    volaw   mevolaw   pxevolaw   tsìvolaw   mrrvolaw   puvolaw   kivolaw
2mune   vomun   mevomun   pxevomun   tsìvomun   mrrvomun   puvomun   kivomun
3pxey   vopey   mevopey   pxevopey   tsìvopey   mrrvopey   puvopey   kivopey
4tsìng   vosìng   mevosìng   pxevosìng   tsìvosìng   mrrvosìng   puvosìng   kivosìng
5mrr   vomrr   mevomrr   pxevomrr   tsìvomrr   mrrvomrr   puvomrr   kivomrr
6pukap   vofu   mevofu   pxevofu   tsìvofu   mrrvofu   puvofu   kivofu
7kinä   vohin   mevohin   pxevohin   tsìvohin   mrrvohin   puvohin   kivohin


Kefyak? :)

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Tirea Aean

I did that, set the initial state of the numberthing to kew instead of (word here), I added actual phrases to Phrases, and a bunch of other edits to Phonetics pages and others to make colours readable on black and some other stuff that I can't even remember. I think some stuff on the Grammar page too.

test



Interesting. I seem to have picked up ability to post html. :D

EDIT:

On topic, I've made the edits to the IPA chart.

Tìtstewan

#8




Quote from: Tirea Aean on August 10, 2014, 04:06:16 PM
On topic, I've made the edits to the IPA chart.
Code (html) Select
<tr>
<td>rr</td>
<td class="ipa">r</td>
<td>trtrtr</td>
<td class="italic">Strongly trilled "r"</td>
</tr>
???

^
Edit: nevermind

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Tirea Aean


Tìtstewan

I've refreshed twice, then I wrote that post, then I've refreshed again - > I've edited my post. ;D
+1 for updating the website!

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