General genitive questions

[AuLekye'ung]

So.  The genitive case.

Please correct any errors in my logic or knowledge.

Oeyä ikran.  My ikran.

Oeyä 'eylanä ikran.  My friends ikran.

Oeyä sa'nok sì sempulä ikran.  My mother and father's ikran.

Srane?

[Kì'eyawn]

My guess would be that the last one should be "sa'nokä sì sempulä," but i'm not certain.

[Hawnuyu atxen]

It depends on whether Lekeye'unga Au tries to say: my mother and my father's ikran, or: my mother's and father's ikran.

I think it can be:
Oeyä sa'nokä sempuläsì ikran.

Still, if you wanted to say the first one i wrote, than your sentence is correct.

[Carborundum]

As stated, "my parent's ikran" != "my mother and father's ikran" in English. However, it might actually work in Na'vi. In English, "my mother" and "father's ikran" are two separate clauses, but in Na'vi the connector sì marks very clearly that they are in fact the same clause. Whether it actually works or not is, of course, just idle speculation.

[Hawnuyu atxen]

Okay, okay... I just didn't know which one it is... my english is really bad sometimes...

[Carborundum]

Okay, okay... I just didn't know which one it is... my english is really bad sometimes...

Ah, I wasn't actually replying to you, so please don't read any kind of critique into my words  
I was just speculating in the possibility that sì could be used to show that the sentence "my mother and father's irkan" is one clause, as opposed to two in English. If it can't then what you said, oeyä sa'nokäsì semoulä ikran, is definitely correct, and it's probably safer to go with that for now anyway.

[Hawnuyu atxen]

... than i'm just tired... i really thought that what you said was to tell me, what the sentence was...

[Nawmaritie]

It depends on whether Lekeye'unga Au tries to say: my mother and my father's ikran, or: my mother's and father's ikran.

I think it can be:
Oeyä sa'nokäsì semoulä ikran.

I think sì in the attachable form -sì goes with the second word of the two connected words.

oeyä sa'nokä sì sempulä ikran   -or-    oeyä sa'nokä sempuläsì ikran

[Hawnuyu atxen]

Really
Does it make a big difference ...

[Nawmaritie]

Spoken not so much as written. If I understand the stress rules correctly, then sempulä would keep its normal stress pattern with a not so loud -sì in the end. In between the two words sì would be more audible.

Written down it's quite a difference, because oeyä sa'nokäsì sempulä ... would be the same as oeyä sì sa'nokä sempulä, so connecting the mother and "I". So it wouldn't be "my mother" anymore, but more like my sister, because of having the same father

[Carborundum]

Could you provide a citation for -sì going at the end of the second word?

[Hawnuyu atxen]

If what you said is right (and why wouldn't it be ), than i understand...
Okay, i modified my post up there!

[Nawmaritie]

Could you provide a citation for -sì going at the end of the second word?

There are several usages of -sì connected to the second word by Frommer himself, for example:

For inclusive forms, you use separate pronouns, e.g., ohe ngengasì (where sì is "and" cliticized to the second element).

in "A message from Paul":

Ta 'eylan karyusì ayngeyä, Pawl.
Your friend and teacher, Paul.

mentioned again here in Wikibook:
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Na%27vi/Syntax#Conjunction

Sì may also cliticize to the second noun phrase, as in the formal inclusive pronouns, or in

[Carborundum]

Neat, thanks.

[Kì'eyawn]

Kaltxì, ma smukan sì smuke,

Wasn't there a discussion at some point that a case-marker and an adposition (which is what sì is when you tack it on the end of a word, right?) can't go on the same word?

[Carborundum]

Kaltxì, ma smukan sì smuke,

Wasn't there a discussion at some point that a case-marker and an adposition (which is what sì is when you tack it on the end of a word, right?) can't go on the same word?

Now that you mention it, I do seem to remember something like that. Probably safer to just leave it in between them.

[Nawmaritie]

Generally yes. Nouns with an adposition don't get a case ending. sì appears to be different though, as it's a conjunction that has a special ability

At least Frommer himself uses it with case markers, too:

"A Message From Paul" again:

a zamivunge oel ayngar aylì'ut horentisì lì'fyayä leNa'vi.
to bring you the words and rules of Na'vi.

_{underlining and color by me}

[wm.annis]

Wasn't there a discussion at some point that a case-marker and an adposition (which is what sì is when you tack it on the end of a word, right?) can't go on the same word?

Not quite.

And adposition is a word that gives context for a phrase (location, time, manner, etc.), just like what most of us call prepositions.  The word sì is just a conjunction.  It joins items.

What Na'vi adpositions have in common with sì is that they can be enclitic, that is, they follow the word they go with and lose any accent of their own.  We're pretty certain that when a word is used with an adposition it will not also take a case marker.  However, there is no such restriction on sì, and in fact Frommer uses enclitic sì with the accusative in his Message to us, aylì'ut horentisì lì'fyayä leNa'vi the words and rules of the Na'vi language.

[Kì'eyawn]

Works for me.  Irayo for the example from Karyu Pawl.

[AuLekye'ung]

Oeyä sa'nokä sì sempulä ikran.

That just seems too wordy.