Ke in Modal Constructions

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

I don't have the power to split the thread, but maybe this could be continued somewhere besides Beginner Chat.

I've wrote a PM to Taronyu.

Pelun kea Marki?

At the end of the day, it might be like the case of using adjectives bound to si construction verbs: Use it where it makes sense. The vast majority of the time though, I think that ke makes the most sense before the modal verb. All but one of the examples given could work either way.

I saw a few posts back that a futa was showing up in the middle of a modal construction. That is not something I have seen before until someone else posted this sentence: oe new futa nga kivä I think this was used as an example somewhere???

Ma Alyara Arati, thanks for the good guidance on using double negatives. That I can remember!

[Alyara Arati]

'Upxaret oel fpìme' Toruk Maktoru nìteng.

I don't have the power to split the thread, but maybe this could be continued somewhere besides Beginner Chat.

I've wrote a PM to Taronyu.

Pelun kea Marki?

That looks like "Why not any Markìs?" which is not quite what you want, here.
Probably better would be: Pelun ke Markìru?

[Kemaweyan]

The vast majority of the time though, I think that ke makes the most sense before the modal verb.

As we know from examples with ke zene / zenke, the meanings are different and we can't replace them with another one.

[Plumps]

I saw a few posts back that a futa was showing up in the middle of a modal construction. That is not something I have seen before until someone else posted this sentence: oel new futa nga kivä I think this was used as an example somewhere???

Sran, lamu tìkenong fìtseng. Fkol sar fì'ut krra muwìntxu mipa/lahea tutet tìpängkxomì.

Natkenong,
Po new hivum fohu.
slä
Pol new futa oe hivum fohu.

Fìtìtxula tsunslu hu hemlì'u alu new, nulnew, kan sì sto nì'aw.

Spoiler

Yes, it was an example here. You use it when (you) introduce another/a new person in the conversation.

For example,
He wants to leave with them.
but
He wants me to leave with them. (lit.: He wants that I leave with them)

This construct is only possible with the verbs 'want, prefer, intend' and 'refuse'.

[Tìtstewan]

I don't have the power to split the thread, but maybe this could be continued somewhere besides Beginner Chat. I've wrote a PM to Taronyu. Pelun kea Marki?

'Awve, poan ke 'eyng frakrr...
Munve, Taronyu lu walaka Olo'eyktan Anawm ulte poan lu Olo'eyktan fìboardä fìtseng.

[Taronyu]

Pretty much, yeah.

[Blue Elf]

Fpìl oel futa lu txele *style*-ä. Lu tenga ral na: ... oe ke kan nivìn futa ngal ... '... I don't intend to look how you ...'
Slä, kxawm sweylu txo fkol sivar lahea lì'ut alu futa: ... oel kan futa ke nivìn futa ngal ... '... I intend that (I) don't watch how you ...' tengfya lì'ukìng new oel futa nga kivä 'I want you to go'.

Spoiler

I think that's a matter of style. It's the same meaning as '... I don't intend to look how you ...'

But maybe one should use another futa: '... I intend that (I) don't watch how you ...' the same way as the sentence 'I want you to go'.

Yes, sentence can be changed by moving ke without change of meaning, but maybe is not just question of style, but also stronger emphasis. Maybe it can also lead to negation of both verbs in modal construction ? (as I proposed before):

A: Can you see it? -> Srake ngal tsat tse'a?
B: Sran. Fko ke tsun tsat ke tsive'a. -> Yes, one can't not see it (it's something very special, that everyone must notice it)

[Tìtstewan]

No. The meaning is "I must not do it, but I may". So it is not forbidden or impossible that I'll not do that action. But it does not mean that I shouldn't do that...

I think, I got this in Romanian, but no idea how I could translate it in German or in English... This word is one of those words which have no direct translation, such like German "Ohrwurm" or "jein"...

[Kemaweyan]

And I think it could be possible in Na'vi because there is double negation as in Russian. Ke should work similarly.