My first attempt

Started by dotster, December 25, 2009, 01:20:15 AM

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dotster

So I've just read over the whole Na'vi Pocket Guide, which was full of awesome helpful information. The only thing I felt absolutley helpless when reading was the Transitivity section, which hopefully I will start to understand as you guys help correct my first attempt at a sentence. I'm sure there is so much wrong about this, but hey, gotta start somewhere yeah?

The sentence I first had in mind: We will get awesome at this if we just keep studying!

What it ended up as: ayoeng-ri slayu nì'ul txantslusam txo ayoeng ftia nìtut nìftxavang.

What was going on in my head: we(inclusive)(topic) become(-fut-) more wise if we(inc) study continually passionately.

I'm sure it's got errors all up in it and stuff, but I decided to go ahead and work on my pronunciation as well, so here's (http://talknavi.com/audio/57/my-first-sentence) a link to me attempting to say my poorly construed sentence. Feel free to pick at it, add or take away, whatever you need to to make as correct as possible. Same goes for the pronunciation on the audio file.

omängum fra'uti

That pronunciation was pretty spot on, actually.

Now the sentence..  I'll give it a proper gloss here.

ayoeng-ri slayu nì'ul txantslusam txo ayoeng ftia nìtut nìftxavang.
1-PL-INCL-TOP become-FUT more wise if 1-PL-INCL study continually passionately

First thing is I believe become would be a transitive verb so

ayoeng-l slayu nì'ul-a tì-txantslusam
1-PL-INCL-ERG become-FUT more-ADJ wise
(Not sure the proper gloss for tì, but it turns an adjective into a conceptual noun, wisdom in this case)

However become more-wisdom is rather odd, so it might be better to say more-wise I will be
ayoeng a-txantslusam layu nì'ul
1-PL-INCL ADJ-wise be-FUT more
I-wise be more

The second part looks fine, so...

ayoeng a-txantslusam layu nì'ul txo ayoeng ftia nìtut nìftxavang.
1-PL-INCL ADJ-wise be-FUT more if 1-PL-INCL study continually passionately
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

Atan

I don't think "become" would be a transitive verb, at least not in this case, because adjectives can't be direct objects.  And since become isn't transitive, you wouldn't use the -l ending (you need to have a noun with the -ti ending to have one with the -l ending.)  So, actually, I think Dotster's translation was more or less correct, though I feel like "ftia" probably needs some sort of inflection (that we don't know about yet?)
Txon yol lu, slä trr zaya'u frakrr.

omängum fra'uti

You're probably right... Marriam Webster lists become as intransitive.  Did I mention I'm not a linguist and I nearly failed most my English classes? :)

I'm not sure if having the two adjectives like that makes sense, but I can't think of a way that it wouldn't be understandable, so that's probably fine.

In which case, i guess I see nothing wrong with it.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

dotster

Well I try a sentence that I was 100% positive I would get something wrong in at least in the way of transitivity but it ends up not needing anything in that case anyways. So just to help me out a bit, in the case of transitivity, become is an intransitive verb so it receives no affix correct? Since that is what I was really trying to understand, let me try something different just to try and get the hang of it.

Eng: I saw the star

Na'vi: Oel tseol'a tanhìl
        Oe-l tse-ol-'a tanhì-ti
        I-(SoT) see(-past tense) star(OfT)

I'm pretty sure that Oel is correct because i've seen it used multiple times around the site, but I was unaware of if the affix [-ti] was a prefix or a suffix, or if it could be used as both.

As for the audio file I wasn't too sure about where to put the stress on some of the words when I recorded it. The ones that didn't have the stressed syllables underlined mainly. I don't know if there is a rule for which syllable to stress or not, so if you know anything about that too that would be great. Irayo!

wm.annis

#5
Quote from: dotster on December 25, 2009, 03:34:14 PMEng: I saw the star

Na'vi: Oel tseol'a tanhìl
       Oe-l tse-ol-'a tanhì-ti
       I-(SoT) see(-past tense) star(OfT)

Oel is correct with a transitive verb.  You've misplaced the verb infix, though.  The verb stem is tse'a, tense and aspect infixes will come between ts- and e, giving tsole'a.

The patientive marker (-ti, but also -t and -it) cannot be a prefix.  In your sentence tanhìt might be the correct patientive, but a good argument could be made for what you have there, too.

Because final syllables in the Activist Survival Guide are almost never underlined, my current guess is that unless otherwise marked, the stress is on the final syllable.  Frommer's pronunciation of kaltxì and kxanì convinces me that's not a completely insane assumption to make.  :)   So, underlining stressed syllables: oel tsole'a tanti.

(Edit: really, I know the difference between o and u.  Oy.)

dotster

Thanks wm.annis, those crazy infixes! They'll take some getting used to. And thanks for the insight on the stress situation, that definitely makes me feel a bit more comfortable.