Nìteng vs kop

[Tirea Aean]

Oe 'ìn nìteng!

Oe nìteng.

Kop: Also, I do this different thing. And additionally, this and that different things.
Nìteng: I do that too. I'm like you because I do that same thing, as well.

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

Oe 'ìn nìteng!

Oe nìteng.

Kop: Also, I do this different thing. And additionally, this and that different things.
Nìteng: I do that too. I'm like you because I do that same thing, as well.

Ta lì'upuk: san Kxetse sì mikyun kop plltxe sìk

Spoiler

There is nothing in the definition of either of these words that indicates that kop would have any implication of opposite or conterfactual meaning. And there is certainly nothing conterfactual or opposite in the above proverb. There was quite a discussion about this some time back, and the conclusion, if I recall, was that these words can be used interchangeably. The shade of meaning between them is too small to usually make a difference. I have always preferred kop, but see lots of other folks using nìteng.

[Tirea Aean]

IMO:

kop and nìteng definitiely are not interchangeable.

Kxetse sì mikyun kop plltxe comes from this idea:

The tail is good for balancing. Ears are good for hearing. The tail and ears also speak.

not:

The mouth speaks. The tail and ears also speak.

If that were the case, it would be nìteng instead of kop.

Kop doesn't mean opposite or counterfactual at all. Where did I say that? O.o Kop is for when you are adding different things to a list or bringing up a new thing and you want to add it in for the sake of adding on.

I hunt. I kop gather berries. Kop, I am a warrior.

You would not use nìteng in the place of kop there. nìteng clearly comes from nì-teng. Teng means same. So the idea with nìteng is you do something that's the same as someone else does. You do it too. You do the same thing. But kop, is introduction and addition of a new additional thing.

I'm quite sure of this. (I briefly asked Pawl this in person in Oct 2010 Ultxa ayHaryuä)

[Tìtstewan]

I've asked the Na'viteri oracle, and it shows me this:

—Oeru nìteng. Mìftxele pori lu oer letsrantena fmawn a new piveng ngar. '(It seems that way) to me as well. By the way, I have some important news I want to ....tell you about him.' Ketsran tsengne nga kivä, kä oe tsatseng nìteng. 'Wherever you go, I'll go there too.' Kop oeru lolängu lie a hapxìtu soaiä terkup. 'Sadly, I too have had the experience of a family member dying.'

[Tirea Aean]

I've asked the Na'viteri oracle, and it shows me this:

—Oeru nìteng. Mìftxele pori lu oer letsrantena fmawn a new piveng ngar. '(It seems that way) to me as well. By the way, I have some important news I want to ....tell you about him.' Spoiler: snip Ketsran tsengne nga kivä, kä oe tsatseng nìteng. 'Wherever you go, I'll go there too.'

Yes. Here, the context was like this:

A: Lam oer fwa tsazìma'uyul ke fnan tìtusaronit.
B: —Oeru nìteng. Mìftxele pori lu oer letsrantena fmawn a new piveng ngar.

Kop oeru lolängu lie a hapxìtu soaiä terkup.
'Sadly, I too have had the experience of a family member dying.'

and here,

A: Oeru loleiu lie a slu sempul.
A: Kop oeru lolängu lie a hapxìtu soaiä terkup.

EDIT: Actual context inserted for first example

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

kop and nìteng definitiely are not interchangeable.

Kxetse sì mikyun kop plltxe comes from this idea:

The tail is good for balancing. Ears are good for hearing. The tail and ears also speak.

not:

The mouth speaks. The tail and ears also speak.

If that were the case, it would be nìteng instead of kop.

Kop doesn't mean opposite or counterfactual at all. Where did I say that? O.o Kop is for when you are adding different things to a list or bringing up a new thing and you want to add it in for the sake of adding on.

I hunt. I kop gather berries. Kop, I am a warrior.

You would not use nìteng in the place of kop there. nìteng clearly comes from nì-teng. Teng means same. So the idea with nìteng is you do something that's the same as someone else does. You do it too. You do the same thing. But kop, is introduction and addition of a new additional thing.

I'm quite sure of this. (I briefly asked Pawl this in person in Oct 2010 Ultxa ayHaryuä)

Spoiler

When Kxetse sì mikyun kop plltxe is spoken by itself, it seems to me to have the second meaning you gave. In fact, the first meaning has never occurred to me. The only way I could tease this meaning out is if were implied by context. In an absence of context (but with even a rudimentary understanding of body language), the second meaning makes immediate sense. IMHO, the dictionary definitions for both of these words is too vague, and needs to be worked on.

[Tirea Aean]

When Kxetse sì mikyun kop plltxe is spoken by itself, it seems to me to have the second meaning you gave. In fact, the first meaning has never occurred to me. The only way I could tease this meaning out is if were implied by context. In an absence of context (but with even a rudimentary understanding of body language), the second meaning makes immediate sense. IMHO, the dictionary definitions for both of these words is too vague, and needs to be worked on.

I'll admit that's true. And it's definitely true that the definitions are too vague. I have long wondered why it's kop in the proverb, not nìteng like it (probably IMO) should be. Unless I'm wrong about these two words? I'm off to ask..

EDIT: Splitting OT Discussion.

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

It will be good to get this clarified. I seem to remember that that proverb is Frommerian, which makes the question all the more interesting.

[Blue Elf]

IMO:

kop and nìteng definitiely are not interchangeable.

THIS

Kxetse sì mikyun kop plltxe comes from this idea:

The tail is good for balancing. Ears are good for hearing. The tail and ears also speak.

not:

The mouth speaks. The tail and ears also speak.

TBH, kop always looked wrong here for me. However given this context it fits perfectly.

A: Oeru loleiu lie a slu sempul.
A: Kop oeru lolängu lie a hapxìtu soaiä terkup.

also here context make clear, why kop is used here.
Single examples taken out of context really makes only confusion.