Author Topic: Genitive Case  (Read 668 times)

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Offline txura utral

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Genitive Case
« on: January 19, 2010, 11:45:44 pm »
This is a question regarding word order and genitive case.
Does the genitive word go before or after the word it modifies?
ex: Utral Aymokriyä translates to "tree of voices"
      Ikranä maktoyu translates to "Banshee's rider" or "Rider of banshee"
Does it matter which of the above word orders is used? I tend to prefer the first one as it seems to me that the more direct translation of genitive case in Na'vi can be thought of as "of -" as in "Rider of banshee" in the above example. This preference is probably due to my proficiency in Spanish, where possession is shown as "noun" de "thing that possesses noun", with the "de" translating to "of".
/end badly worded post
Na'viti ayngal nume, ayskxawng!
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I apologize in advance for my grammar.

Offline suomichris

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Re: Genitive Case
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2010, 11:56:02 pm »
They're no difference in Na'vi with the two word orders; either order is fine, and they mean the same thing! Easy, huh?!

Offline txura utral

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Re: Genitive Case
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2010, 11:59:02 pm »
That clears up a lot. I've noticed that most native English speakers seem to prefer the genitive before the noun, as it's closer to the English "-'s" for possessive. Just wanted to make sure that my Na'vi would be decipherable if I used a different word order. Also, thanks for the quick response. That was less than five minutes after the creation of this thread.  ;D
Na'viti ayngal nume, ayskxawng!
Learn your Na'vi, morons!

I apologize in advance for my grammar.

Offline suomichris

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Re: Genitive Case
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2010, 12:12:03 am »
That clears up a lot. I've noticed that most native English speakers seem to prefer the genitive before the noun, as it's closer to the English "-'s" for possessive. Just wanted to make sure that my Na'vi would be decipherable if I used a different word order. Also, thanks for the quick response. That was less than five minutes after the creation of this thread.  ;D
Yes, well, I am "working" on my dissertation, which mostly means I just fart around on the Internet..... :p

Yeah, I imagine with something like word order, we're going to see things looking like people's first language, at least in these early stages.  Since we know that discourse influences word order, but not how, it will be interesting to see if we ever get a corpus or something to look at...  In the meantime, though, to make sure I don't get too locked into one order or another, I like to have fun mixing up the word order for no good reason--or, perhaps, for the way things sound one way rather than the other.  It's good fun, you should try it!

Offline txura utral

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Re: Genitive Case
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2010, 10:03:09 am »
That clears up a lot. I've noticed that most native English speakers seem to prefer the genitive before the noun, as it's closer to the English "-'s" for possessive. Just wanted to make sure that my Na'vi would be decipherable if I used a different word order. Also, thanks for the quick response. That was less than five minutes after the creation of this thread.  ;D
Yes, well, I am "working" on my dissertation, which mostly means I just fart around on the Internet..... :p

Yeah, I imagine with something like word order, we're going to see things looking like people's first language, at least in these early stages.  Since we know that discourse influences word order, but not how, it will be interesting to see if we ever get a corpus or something to look at...  In the meantime, though, to make sure I don't get too locked into one order or another, I like to have fun mixing up the word order for no good reason--or, perhaps, for the way things sound one way rather than the other.  It's good fun, you should try it!

When I write or speak in Na'vi, I do try to vary the word order as much as possible. Na'vi is the only language I know with free word order, so I like to take advantage of it.
Na'viti ayngal nume, ayskxawng!
Learn your Na'vi, morons!

I apologize in advance for my grammar.

Offline Erimeyz

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Re: Genitive Case
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2010, 11:06:00 am »
When I write or speak in Na'vi, I do try to vary the word order as much as possible. Na'vi is the only language I know with free word order, so I like to take advantage of it.

What a great attitude to take!

  - Eri

Offline ~Ayngahu

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Re: Genitive Case
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2010, 08:06:41 pm »
When I write or speak in Na'vi, I do try to vary the word order as much as possible. Na'vi is the only language I know with free word order, so I like to take advantage of it.

That's a good idea, and here's another reason why: When mixing the word order, you get to think on each word individually, giving better chance to remember it and what it means.

Think of it; when you speak a language you know, you think like that language (obvious if you know more than one language fairly well). I'll start rearranging the words in my "Nga-ru lu fpom srak?", because it's gotten too automatic. I don't taste the words and their meaning.

Overall a great tip to remember :) Irayo.
A big thankyou to DrBinder for creating my forum avatar :)

Offline txura utral

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Re: Genitive Case
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2010, 08:28:36 pm »
I'm glad that you all appreciate the free word order in Na'vi. ;D
Na'viti ayngal nume, ayskxawng!
Learn your Na'vi, morons!

I apologize in advance for my grammar.

Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: Genitive Case
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2010, 04:43:41 pm »
Think of it; when you speak a language you know, you think like that language (obvious if you know more than one language fairly well). I'll start rearranging the words in my "Nga-ru lu fpom srak?", because it's gotten too automatic. I don't taste the words and their meaning.

I'd leave ngaru lu fpom srak alone, I imagine (but, as I don't know any other free-order languages) that phrases like this tend to be said with just one word order and so, whilst it would be understood, and make grammatical sense, it would sound odd to a native speaker to say a rearranged form.
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