The "a" thingie...

Started by Swoka Tsamsiyu, January 09, 2014, 09:59:08 AM

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Swoka Tsamsiyu

Kaltxì ma Frapo,
Like I stated in the Pivängkxo nìNa'vi ko, I'm in trouble with the clause "a" thingie. When to use, when not to use. Where to put it, which place etc. Whatever I do, I always mess up :-[

Tìtstewan

#1
I better make some example:
blue = the "a" thingie :)
purple = sub. clause

Oel tse'a fìyerikit a oel taron.
I see this Hexapede which I hunt.

Oel tse'a kemit a soli oe fìtseng.
I see a action what I did here.

Oel fpìl fì'ut a ngal tslam tsat.
I think this that you understand that.


OR

Oel fpìl futa ngal tslam tsat.
I think that you understand that.



Sometimes "a" appears in some headline styles but there isn't really necessary.

EDIT: Attributive "a" and Truncated Style - Na'viteri

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Plumps

a serves several functions in Na'vi:

1/
It is used as a pre- or suffix to adjectives to connect it to a noun. Compare:
a. lora tìrol – tìrol alor = beautiful song
b. fìtìrol lu lor = this song is beautiful

In a way this is a shortened relative clause (see next point), derived from tìrol a lu lor "song that is beautiful"

2/
It is used to introduce relative clauses. Thus it can be translated differently in English, i.e. as "who, whose, whom, that, which". Tìtstewan gave a few examples above.

"I see the woman who is beautiful."
"The animal that attacked us."
etc.

All these instances give additional information about a (pro)noun and that's how you should see it. Whenever you give additional information, you can be sure that you need an a in Na'vi ;)

It can be confusing because other than in English where you can usually only place additional information to the right of the noun (you can't say *"attacked us that the animal") you can put information on both sides of a noun (same as with attributive adjectives). From an English sentence structure you can say,
c. ioang a 'eko awngat = animal that attacks us
but you can also say
d. awngat 'eko a ioang = animal that attacks us

Everything that is connected to a is additional information for the noun; in this case "animal".

The thing with the adposition is that they are shortened relative clauses. Think of the sentence,
e. "I liked the great meeting at the fire"
What is additional information? — "at the fire" because the main clause is just "I liked the great meeting". The addition is just to make the location clearer. You could think of it as a long clause as "... great meeting which took place at the fire." This in Na'vi is also introduced by a. So it is grammatically wrong to say
f. *samunu oer tsawlultxa ro teptseng*
but it needs to be
f'. samunu oer tsawlultxa a ro teptseng

The way to get used to this is simply practice and seeing how it is used by other speakers. If you have further questions or want to practice don't hesitate ;)





Quote from: Tìtstewan on January 09, 2014, 10:33:52 AM
Oel tse'a fìyerikit a oel taron.
I see this Hexapede which I hunt.
=> otherwise this could also mean "... that hunts me."

Oel tse'a kemit a soli oe fìtseng.
I see a action what I did here.
=> I'm still not sure whether this is really valid...

...

Sometimes "a" appears in some titles but there isn't really necessary.
=> it has nothing to do with titles but with attribution and it is necessary. What you probably mean is that it can be droped when it is used in headline style

Tìtstewan

Quote from: Plumps on January 09, 2014, 11:53:42 AM
Quote from: Tìtstewan on January 09, 2014, 10:33:52 AM
Oel tse'a fìyerikit a oel taron.
I see this Hexapede which I hunt.
=> otherwise this could also mean "... that hunts me."
Fixed, forgot the -l.

Quote from: Plumps on January 09, 2014, 11:53:42 AM
Quote from: Tìtstewan on January 09, 2014, 10:33:52 AM
Oel tse'a kemit a soli oe fìtseng.
I see a action what I did here.
=> I'm still not sure whether this is really valid...
Somewhere it was written about this, but I can't find it [*on searching*]. Tirea Aean has used it quite often.

Quote from: Plumps on January 09, 2014, 11:53:42 AM
Quote from: Tìtstewan on January 09, 2014, 10:33:52 AM
Sometimes "a" appears in some titles but there isn't really necessary.
=> it has nothing to do with titles but with attribution and it is necessary. What you probably mean is that it can be droped when it is used in headline style
Yes, I mean that head line. I used the wrong word for that. German influence :-[ *modifiying that text*

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Kemaweyan

Quote from: Tìtstewan on January 09, 2014, 12:28:59 PM
Somewhere it was written about this, but I can't find it [*on searching*]. Tirea Aean has used it quite often.

I remember it too, but also can't find :(
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Taronyu Leleioae

#5
Quote from: Tìtstewan on January 09, 2014, 10:33:52 AM
Oel fpìl fì'ut a ngal tslam tsat.
I think this that you understand that.[/b]

OR

Oel fpìl futa ngal tslam tsat.
I think that you understand that.

To make this thread a little more complete for other readers, I think a couple of comments need to be included...

Sometimes a acts as a pronoun placeholder.  (See next post by Plumps for "a" related comment.   ::) )
Remember, "a" can be translated into English as "that", "which", or "who".
Further, with the English translation, the "that" is not always written nor included.  However the Na'vi language requires it.

Also related, keep in mind the various forms of fì'u = "this (thing)".  The a can be merged with fì'u to create a shortened form.
    fì'u + a > fwa
    fì'u-l + a > fula
    fì'u-t + a > futa
These are used as placeholders for clauses.

Plumps

#6
Quote from: Kemaweyan on January 09, 2014, 01:02:34 PM
Quote from: Tìtstewan on January 09, 2014, 12:28:59 PM
Somewhere it was written about this, but I can't find it [*on searching*]. Tirea Aean has used it quite often.
I remember it too, but also can't find :(

I found it. It was used by Omängum and K. Pawl deemed it "lì'fyavi lesar". That's as good as a blessing ;D
:-\ hm, totally forgot about that :P





Quote from: Taronyu Leleioae on January 09, 2014, 01:08:17 PM
...  However the Na'vi language requires it.

Also related, keep in mind the various forms of fì'u = "this (thing)". 

True ;)
I didn't include all of those as not to frighten people :P ... because there are even more when you think about indirect speech but you can include them all under relative clauses, I think.

Describing a as a pronoun is a bit tricky. It could fool you into believing that it can take case endings – which all (pro)nouns can but a cannot ;)

Kemaweyan

Quote from: Plumps on January 09, 2014, 01:25:57 PM
Quote from: Kemaweyan on January 09, 2014, 01:02:34 PM
Quote from: Tìtstewan on January 09, 2014, 12:28:59 PM
Somewhere it was written about this, but I can't find it [*on searching*]. Tirea Aean has used it quite often.
I remember it too, but also can't find :(

I found it. It was used by Omängum and K. Pawl deemed it "lì'fyavi lesar". That's as good as a blessing ;D
:-\ hm, totally forgot about that :P


Irayo nìtxan :)
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Tìtstewan

Quote from: Plumps on January 09, 2014, 01:25:57 PM
Quote from: Kemaweyan on January 09, 2014, 01:02:34 PM
Quote from: Tìtstewan on January 09, 2014, 12:28:59 PM
Somewhere it was written about this, but I can't find it [*on searching*]. Tirea Aean has used it quite often.
I remember it too, but also can't find :(

I found it. It was used by Omängum and K. Pawl deemed it "lì'fyavi lesar". That's as good as a blessing ;D
:-\ hm, totally forgot about that :P
Damn, I'm so bad at searching...
But as for this a soli thing, please lets continue it here

Edit: Ninja'd

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`Eylan Ayfalulukanä

Although this will hurt your brain if you try and take it in all at once, mastery of the proper use of a is one of the things that separates the beginner/intermediate learner from the master. For beginners stumbling onto this page, it is worth your while to study this carefully, and explore all the 'diversions'.

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

Tìtstewan

Quote from: `Eylan Ayfalulukanä on January 10, 2014, 03:29:40 AM
...mastery of the proper use of a is one of the things that separates the beginner/intermediate learner from the master.
Somehow I'm afraid to read this, because it can be misunderstood.

----

I remember me on a 'similar' discussion in the intermediate section:
Quote from: Tìtstewan on August 28, 2013, 09:18:28 PM
Quote from: `Eylan Ayfalulukanä on August 28, 2013, 09:05:48 PM
Example: Txewi slerele mì hilvan.
Txewi swimming in the river.

Quote from: `Eylan Ayfalulukanä on August 28, 2013, 09:05:48 PM
Example: Ninal yamom yerikit a mì helku poäeyä.
Ninal ate the yerik, which is in her house.

Edit:
This sentence has a independent clause and a subordinate clause.
Ninal ate the yerik [Ninal yamom yerikit] is the independent clause
in her house [mì helku peyä] is the subordinate clause
You will see here is need the subordinate clause marker a.
--> Ninal yamom yerikit a mì helku peyä.

Txewi slerele mì hilvan
Txewi swimming in the river.

This sentence hasn't a subordinate clause, hence no a.


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