Virtual Reality

Started by Tsway'eion, January 15, 2010, 11:17:24 PM

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Tsway'eion

I've been studying it a bit, and i think there is some untapped potential here for some next gen movies, and next gen videogames... i just can't believe it hasn't happened yet.

But what is out there(virtual reality helmets? other things similar)? What is possible(any project demos?)? and What can "we" do with this technology(3D virtual pandora anyone?)?

Txur’Itan

Blu-Ray movies will be playable in 3D on 3D TV sets.  I am thinking that AVATAR will eventually come out in a format to play on those TV sets.

PS3 has some prospective support for stereoscopic 3D TV gaming and movies.  I do not know for which games off of the top of my head.

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VR

Game companies, specifically platform holders, and 3d accelerator companies are working on technology to improve the reality aspect of gaming.

There are two components to this.

1) Interface
2) Output

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Input

Interface can be controllers, cameras, motions sensors and so on.  But all of these require a device, and they provide little if any feedback to the user.

Touching something has texture, temperature, tension and compression.  These things provide feedback as you touch, feel and hold things.

Tech to move towards a level of tactile response where the user is completely fooled by the false reality is more than a few years away.

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Visual

Output can be related to sound and vision, but there is also touch, which true VR would combine input output enough so as top be seamless.  A helmet does not suspend disbelief, and can be uncomfortable or heavy.  A monitor still has the limitation of not being a full immersion.

Holography is by far the longest ways off from what was portrayed in the movie avatar.

The most viable next tier of gaming is 3D imaging using polarized glasses and stereo imaging. While interesting, it is still a two dimensional optical illusion.  If you notice when you slide your orientation towards the screen left or right things move left or right on the screen but you can not see around their edges or expose any occluded edges, surfaces or objects.  This is because the animation/movie is a collection of timed static "photos" in a stationary capture at orientations like the eye would see if the viewer was the one moving and not the camera.  If you close one eye when looking through the 3d glasses, you will notice the difference.

Audio

There is plenty of technology to fool the ear reliably.  Unless you are an engineer or a musician, you are likely not to notice certain flaws in anything that is coming down the pipe in the next ten years or so.
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Tsepxor

Quote from: Txur'Itan on January 16, 2010, 12:20:56 AM
There is plenty of technology to fool the ear reliably.  Unless you are an engineer or a musician, you are likely not to notice certain flaws in anything that is coming down the pipe in the next ten years or so.

Well that counts me out in that case, I have an exceptional ear for music and sound :(



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Swok Txon

Virtual...wow

that would be pretty good

but of COURSE EVERYBODY will suddenly have a massive increase in cancer and it will be blamed on that technology


I can dream though...I can dream

Tsway'eion

Quote from: Swok Txon on January 20, 2010, 02:45:33 PM
Virtual...wow

that would be pretty good

but of COURSE EVERYBODY will suddenly have a massive increase in cancer and it will be blamed on that technology


I can dream though...I can dream

Cancer??? from what? the wireless? you'd be exposed to more radiation using a cell phone... I can see people's eyes getting strained from the whole experience... but Cancer??? Nah.

dotster

You can go buy Coraline on DVD and play it on any old TV on any crappy DVD player and watch it in 3D. It comes with little glasses and all.

Not my favorite movie, and the 3D definitely isn't amazing, but it's possible.

littleblitz

oh. my. eywa. the idea of a virtual reality Avatar game fills me with joy :D
'Fly straight, dammit!'

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Quote from: dotster on January 21, 2010, 10:10:05 PM
You can go buy Coraline on DVD and play it on any old TV on any crappy DVD player and watch it in 3D. It comes with little glasses and all.

Not my favorite movie, and the 3D definitely isn't amazing, but it's possible.

Completely different 3D Technology. Avatar uses two panes of video(put your realD 3D glasses on and look into the mirror.. you will see that they block out the opposite lense).
This is also the reason why Avatar and newer 3D movies and games require special TV's that can play two layers of video at the same time.
"Why look who it is... YOU!... How'bout that." Lord Sheogorath

Txur Txe’lan

im always skeptical about games in 3D. In a way i don't thing gaming should really evolve anymore than where it is right now. Virtual reality is a very immersive system, something a lot of gamer are looking for. But because Virtual reality makes the world seem so real it needs to be paired with physical feedback in order to be fully successful. without physical feedback, every time you interact with something you will loose immersion.

Tsway'eion

The thing about virtual reality, is that people don't see a use for it commercially, but, if videogames were developed for it, then other developers could look at what worked and what didn't, thus creating a reson to develop the concept further. I think getting past the immersion problem as a fun challenge, rather than a problem.

Txur Txe’lan

dont get me wrong, i would love for video games to take it to VR, i just want them to look at all the aspects of what it means to be immersive. at E3 Microsoft and Sony are obviously trying to be more like the Wii. I have a Wii and while i can say its interactive, it no where near immersive. Its no doubt that VR will happen but iv seen many projects like it die due to lack of research and technology. i would rather tham wait and do it right the first time rather than have it right now but not be effective for another 10 years.

Tsway'eion

Quote from: Txur Txe'lan on February 14, 2010, 06:30:05 PM
dont get me wrong, i would love for video games to take it to VR, i just want them to look at all the aspects of what it means to be immersive. at E3 Microsoft and Sony are obviously trying to be more like the Wii. I have a Wii and while i can say its interactive, it no where near immersive. Its no doubt that VR will happen but iv seen many projects like it die due to lack of research and technology. i would rather tham wait and do it right the first time rather than have it right now but not be effective for another 10 years.

Thats what they said 20 years ago...
http://home.xnet.com/~ansible/graves.hist.html
VR should be happening now, along side the Wii, people need to get more innovative, and while Microsoft and Sony are taking small leaps and bounds, nothing is really changing. Nintendo had the biggest leap, and while it may not be very immersive, it defiantly made a lot of money. An even bigger leap was the idea to use the wii to create head motion tracking, now if only game developers would take advantage of that...

This is just a discussion on VR and videogames, sorry if i seemed harsh in the response, i'm just trying to voice my opinion, i'm not trying to shoot yours down.

Txur Txe’lan

something stood out to me here
Quote from: Tsway'eion on February 14, 2010, 11:11:20 PM
Nintendo had the biggest leap, and while it may not be very immersive, it defiantly made a lot of money.
this is what worries me in the industry. a lot of times its a lot about the money and not about the community. thats all im gonna say on that cause if i dont stop here my post will just turn into a rant
I didn't take the time to read all of the article but i did read the section on VR and all i have to say is wtf have we been doing for the past 20 years. your right, we should have VR by now. from the examples in the article it seems as though VR development hasn't even moved. i dont even know what to say now.

oh, btw, i know this is just a forum discussion. everyone can share their opinion, even if its against someone else.

Technowraith

One issue with VR is that Nintendo did try VR with the Virtual Boy game system. And it didn't seem to work out. So Nintendo maybe be looking back at the drawing board now and redesigning something new. The Wii with it's unique motion tracking system is probably the best candidate to incorporate a full VR experience, as a head attachment could be made and tracked.

I'm gonna continue this at a later time, as i want to research something (and i gotta head out to work). So i'll follow up more and see what i can come up with.
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Tsway'eion

Quote from: Txur Txe'lan on February 14, 2010, 11:40:10 PM
something stood out to me here
Quote from: Tsway'eion on February 14, 2010, 11:11:20 PM
Nintendo had the biggest leap, and while it may not be very immersive, it defiantly made a lot of money.
this is what worries me in the industry. a lot of times its a lot about the money and not about the community. thats all im gonna say on that cause if i dont stop here my post will just turn into a rant
I didn't take the time to read all of the article but i did read the section on VR and all i have to say is wtf have we been doing for the past 20 years. your right, we should have VR by now. from the examples in the article it seems as though VR development hasn't even moved. i dont even know what to say now.

oh, btw, i know this is just a forum discussion. everyone can share their opinion, even if its against someone else.

Of course its about the money, when is it not? But the VR development is either a government conspiracy... or its been too expensive until now.

I don't know if nintendo really knew how much money they were going to make off of the Wii... seriously with the insane hardware and software... i think that they were worried that they may not make a lot of money off of the system if they charged too much for it.

The wii doesn't have much graphic capabilities (who cares about graphics anyway... i just wish they wouldn't have made the Mii Avatars But instead of making the graphics "more real" make it look like a cartoon, or an Anime, just make that Anime cartoon character look well drawn in comparison to the rest of the graphics. (which should also be well drawn)

The VB makes an interesting topic though, but we have better things to work with now. I think that someone (maybe myself?) needs to make a Virtual Reality headset that gets its input, and sends it back to a computer via wireless.


pbhead

My robotic's team owns a VR headset... its really cool, we were thinking about using it to control the robot... aka, you turn and tilt your head, the robot does stuff... ran outta time though, and we found that there was not enough throughput to allow a video signal from the robot to the controler interface, so you could not see what the camera was seeing (which, was kinda important with the plan and all)

Letxuma Swizaw

i've seen a video of a guy that messed around with a wiimote and some simple programming to create perspective 3-d if i find it i'll post it. The implications of this would be "true 3-d" i guess, you could actually reorient yourself to see around an on-screen object.
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Tsway'eion

Quote from: Letxuma Swizaw on February 18, 2010, 09:15:24 PM
i've seen a video of a guy that messed around with a wiimote and some simple programming to create perspective 3-d if i find it i'll post it. The implications of this would be "true 3-d" i guess, you could actually reorient yourself to see around an on-screen object.

Head Tracking for Desktop VR Displays using the WiiRemote

Found it first XD

Letxuma Swizaw

Oe Skxawnghu längu.

Kìrìstìyä tìpe'unri a kifkeyit kelor kawngsì tsere'a, tsafpìlfya kifkeyit tsafya txolängula.

Join our real life tribe! here(And yes, it will be a real tribe in the real world, not a role play tribe)