Author Topic: Hallelujah Mountains  (Read 1555 times)

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Offline SyenMakto

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Hallelujah Mountains
« on: May 01, 2014, 10:24:09 am »
So I'm obsessed with the mountains :D I've always had a couple questions about them though. Do they move? I would assume they do because they're just floating there, but certain things (like the route young Na'vi take to claim an Ikran) are always there. If the mountains move, wouldn't that pathway be gone by now  ??? ? Also, where is everything in relation to the mountains? I figured that the Tree of Souls was right smack dab in the middle, due to the discussions about the strength of the Flux Vortex. But idk where Kelutral (Hometree), Hell's Gate, the Mountains, and the Tree of Souls are in relation to each other. :-\

Ps: How exactly does the avatar uplink work? With everything they say about the vortex, you would think that it would cause issues when the team moves to site 26 and the their location near the Tree of Souls.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2014, 10:54:47 am by SyenMakto »
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Offline Blue Elf

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Re: Hallelujah Mountains
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2014, 01:22:11 pm »
As mountain are kept in the air by magnetic forces (they contain unobtanium, what is superconductor), they can move. However, if they could move without any limits, they could move in the place where magnetic forces disappear, what would cause them to fall down.
In the movie we can see that mountains are connected by some lianas and at some point when going to ikran area Na'vi went through something like bridge consisting of strong branches - so seems that mountains are kept together by lianas and branches - probably very strong. Youcan see this also in Avatar game (but it can't be considered as proof)
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Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Hallelujah Mountains
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2014, 02:56:38 pm »
The implication that the mountains have been in the same relative position for a long time suggests that the magnetic field in that location is very strong, and covers an area considerably bigger than where just the floating mountains are. Some force, perhaps magnetic current induction, keeps the fields strong in the mountains so they continue to float. The fact that you see rock formations that have formed along the magnetic force lines suggest the field has a central strong spot, where the Tree of Souls is.

They take liberty with physics here. If these magnetic fields are really that strong, and metal object is going to get an electric current induced in it when it moves through the field. By Lenz's Law, this current will set up its own magnetic field that will oppose the original field. Thus, things like gns and helicopters wil find they are fighting an invisible force when they try to move. These electric currents would also be quite damaging to electronics, unless they are magnetically shielded.

As an RF engineer, I have given a lot of thought to how the avatars work. We know they use some new electronic technology called psionics, but don't know much more than that. I strongly suspect though, that this involves some system on non-Hertzian radiation (and new physics!), that cannot be detected or controlled like electromagnetic energy. This could explain how the avatars can work without problems in the magnetic fields that exist around the floating mountains, and surely other places on Pandora. It also explains why Quaritch was unable to stop the avatars by simply jamming their communications links with radio jamming equipment.

Since our bodies are also conductive, this raises another interesting question: How can our bodies deal with the electric currents induced in them by these super-strong magnetic fields?

Your other questions, I don't have a clue about.

In the meantime though, Avatar is fun in that we can suspend reality while enjoying the film!

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Offline SyenMakto

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Re: Hallelujah Mountains
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2014, 09:52:14 am »
As an RF engineer, I have given a lot of thought to how the avatars work. We know they use some new electronic technology called psionics, but don't know much more than that. I strongly suspect though, that this involves some system on non-Hertzian radiation (and new physics!), that cannot be detected or controlled like electromagnetic energy. This could explain how the avatars can work without problems in the magnetic fields that exist around the floating mountains, and surely other places on Pandora. It also explains why Quaritch was unable to stop the avatars by simply jamming their communications links with radio jamming equipment.

Since our bodies are also conductive, this raises another interesting question: How can our bodies deal with the electric currents induced in them by these super-strong magnetic fields?

Interesting point about the fact our bodies would conduct the currents. I hadn't thought about that before  ???. But I'm guessing if a human was in the mountains or near the Tree of Souls for any extended length of time, it would affect something.... I also don't know much about Na'vi anatomy, so it might also affect them, but not nearly as much. Idk.... if only we could all go and find out.... *looks off into the distance and sighs* :D
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Offline baritone

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Re: Hallelujah Mountains
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2014, 11:59:27 am »
As an RF engineer, I have given a lot of thought to how the avatars work. We know they use some new electronic technology called psionics, but don't know much more than that. I strongly suspect though, that this involves some system on non-Hertzian radiation (and new physics!), that cannot be detected or controlled like electromagnetic energy. This could explain how the avatars can work without problems in the magnetic fields that exist around the floating mountains, and surely other places on Pandora. It also explains why Quaritch was unable to stop the avatars by simply jamming their communications links with radio jamming equipment.
They have no problem talking to each other during the battle. Jake, Neytiri and Norm wore transceivers with throat microphone, and they can be contacted through something similar to a radio station.
So, maybe, just transmitters working frequency was outside the interference, and Quaritch could not suppress relationship because he did not have electronic warfare?

Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Hallelujah Mountains
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2014, 04:20:55 pm »
I think we are delving into a realm where the physics were not completely developed by Mr. Cameron, as the vast majority of viewers would not think of these things or understand them.

Na'vi bodies, being quite similar to ours biochemcially, would have the same issues with induction.

Radio would work fine in an intense magnetic field, as the field would have little effect on electromagnetic energy. Radar would probably work as well, but don't tell Mr. Cameron ;)

As fas as electronic warfare, not having any EW gear is a plausible answer. However, they have enough communication equipment that I suspect it would be fairly easy to improvise a jammer. However, if the bomb they built to drop on the tree of souls is any clue, they might not have been the sharpest sticks in the pile.

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Offline Kiyevame Ikran

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Re: Hallelujah Mountains
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2014, 07:17:03 pm »
I think we are delving into a realm where the physics were not completely developed by Mr. Cameron, as the vast majority of viewers would not think of these things or understand them.

Na'vi bodies, being quite similar to ours biochemcially, would have the same issues with induction.

Radio would work fine in an intense magnetic field, as the field would have little effect on electromagnetic energy. Radar would probably work as well, but don't tell Mr. Cameron ;)

As fas as electronic warfare, not having any EW gear is a plausible answer. However, they have enough communication equipment that I suspect it would be fairly easy to improvise a jammer. However, if the bomb they built to drop on the tree of souls is any clue, they might not have been the sharpest sticks in the pile.



This is quite off topic.
Why does Quaritch needs to use mine explosive/daisy cutters instead of multiple rockets fired to the tree of souls? I think Rockets will also blow up tree of souls, like they take down the hometree. Rocket doesn't have tracking system so it might work quite well in the flux. ???
Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random-Random

Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Hallelujah Mountains
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2014, 01:32:09 am »
Unless they had some exotic nonmetallic rockets, magnetic induction would make them veer off course. Check out something called Lenz's law.

I'm trying to remember what kind of rockets they used on hometree. But most modern rockets have at least a primitive guidance system.

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Offline SyenMakto

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Re: Hallelujah Mountains
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2014, 11:30:31 am »
I love how this went from the mountains, to the effects of the vortex on us, to the advanced tech used in rockets on other planets in 2054  ;D Oh forums.... This whole thing is way out of my league now... Ima let all of you engineers and science people figure this out... Ya'll have fun now  ::)
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Offline Felps Cross

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Re: Hallelujah Mountains
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2015, 09:44:08 am »
Well, actually in the "The Science of Avatar", by Stephen Baxter, a lot of these questions are answered, using information from the Avatar universe, and (mainly) from our own universe. The mountains are really kept in the air because of the huge amount of unobtanium in them and in the ground under where they stand. Even how the Venture Star works/travels is explained in there, along with Na'vi biology, Pandora's flora, the air of the moon, the fauna, and so so so many other things. It's a must. It is also a work recognized and written with help from JC himself.


P.S.: I know the topic is kinda old, but for future readers, just wanna leave the heads up here. If interested, the book can be found here  8): http://www.amazon.com/The-Science-Avatar-Stephen-Baxter/dp/0316133477
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Offline allrock123

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Re: Hallelujah Mountains
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2017, 06:14:37 pm »
As others have said I suspect "certain regions" of the moon Pandora experience strong induced fields of energy , given the moon is in orbit with a huge gas giant planet it may be possible that this relationship has something to do with the huge flux fields that make this possible,, as for possible theory's on "Host to Avatar body commutations links" it might be a Quantum entanglement process" between the link unit and the host Avatar brain,, There are some who study consciousness science that theorize that this "bond" already exists like a sixth sense in all living things (including plants) but we have no tools to prove this through science process (native peoples call this the quiet voice)
Epigenetics research also holds some interest here.. Epi means it "runs on top of the Genome" and turns on or off core parts of ones genetic code. this code impacts far more then the color of ones skin ,, it may hold ancestral reactive memory's from ones ancestors and there experiences and can be passed to ones children.. there  is a dark side to epigenetics as there are some that "see" certain Epigenetic responses like the ancestral wounding suffered by Native Americans and certain ethnic populations as "flaws" that can be treated with epigenetic compounds,, turning off some of these "bonds" that incite ancestral pain and grief .. I feel those "bonds" are there for a reason.. 

Offline TEAgaming2154

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Re: Hallelujah Mountains
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2017, 06:21:54 pm »
Quantum entanglement sounds reasonable.
As does epigenetics.
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