Major plot hole? (Big spoiler warning)

Numeie · January 10, 2010, 12:49:54 PM

When Jake became separated from the party on his first expedition and they had to call off the hunt, why did they not hit the red button when they returned to base? Grace was sure that he (his avatar) was going to die, and although that doesn't kill the driver it is supposedly an extremely unpleasant experience - the scriptment has a character who had it happen to him and became mentally unbalanced as a direct result. Grace hadn't necessarily grown to like Jake by that point, but she doesn't seem to actively hate him. Is there any plausible explanation other than "It was necessary for the plot to work"?

Txontaw · January 10, 2010, 12:52:39 PM

They couldn't pull him out, because that would mean that fresh meat is passed out in an extremely carnivorous forest, which is an expensive meal. If he dies, he should theoretically automatically be pulled out. They probably waited until his brain showed signs of sleep or calm before pulling him out, since that would mean that he is probably in a safe place.

Tìng Eywatikìte'e · January 10, 2010, 12:53:24 PM

Well I think it's a lot more dangerous and serious mental damage could be a possibility to interrupt the link during progress.

Plus Grace wouldn't want the Avatar to just drop in the middle of the forest where it could become lunch. She'd much rather give him the chance to find a safe place to hide it.

Numeie · January 10, 2010, 01:07:43 PM

Quote from: Tìng Eywatikìte'e on January 10, 2010, 12:53:24 PM
Well I think it's a lot more dangerous and serious mental damage could be a possibility to interrupt the link during progress.

We see it used (multiple times?) in the film.

Tengfya swizaw · January 10, 2010, 01:10:23 PM

Yeah... I was wondering if the Big Red Button was such a last-resort, only-in-emergencies thing, why do all the characters use it so much, and why isn't there a safety on it?

Txontaw · January 10, 2010, 01:10:37 PM

Yeah, which means they were lucky. It's a small percent, but if it happens, you're screwed.

Reronsem Si · January 10, 2010, 01:12:57 PM

Quote from: Numeie on January 10, 2010, 01:07:43 PM
Quote from: Tìng Eywatikìte'e on January 10, 2010, 12:53:24 PM
Well I think it's a lot more dangerous and serious mental damage could be a possibility to interrupt the link during progress.
We see it used (multiple times?) in the film.

Though it may have happened a few times, you saw how agitated Grace and Jake were when they broke that link. Not necessarily affecting them, but definitely a fear of damage. Norm and the other scientists also want to prevent the broken link. It's all about the danger of perhaps getting caught in subconsciousness.

Pretty much the "hole" has been covered by the above posts, for why she didn't pull the plug. Grace did seem to have a bit of remorse for having to leave the area due to nightfall. First hint of acceptance and Grace doesn't seem the type to want anyone to die.

Hawnuyu atìtse'a · January 10, 2010, 02:02:46 PM

I did notice a mistake in the film at this scene. Jake has a throat mic, and it's designed not to be torn off. But after he jumps into the river, it magically disappears. Showing it torn off by the thanator might have made it more believable, but if jake had the mic he couldve just radioed for help. So it was a big mistake IMO.

Tìng Eywatikìte'e · January 10, 2010, 02:08:43 PM

Well the movie doesn't need to show every tiny detail for it to make sense. A lot was going on in that scene and no system is perfect so it very well could have fallen off.

Or maybe falling in the river made it useless and Jake just took it off himself.

'Tsamsiyu · January 10, 2010, 02:18:05 PM

In my opinion it's a serious last resort... Grace had no idea what situation Jake was in, she didn't know if the Avatar had been eaten by the Palulukan or whether it was safe.

I think the only time it is pressed while an Avatar is being used is when Quaritch storms in, Grace uses it to cancel the link so that Jake eats something before he enters his Avatar again earlier in the film.

Also about the throat Mic... considering the distance that he fell into the water and the speed at which he hit it, anything could of happened to it, the speed, impact and pressure of the fall was strong enough to cause his nose to start bleeding. It may have even been connected to the Backpack for some extra signal gain, which he detaches to distract the Palulukan.

Hawnuyu atìtse'a · January 10, 2010, 02:19:31 PM

Eh, you pick up on stuff like that after a few viewings. And if he radioed for help the movie would be over then and there.

Sngä'i Tìrey-yä · January 10, 2010, 02:29:29 PM

I'd be willing to bet the radio would be useless after being banged around and drenched in water.

And although the red button was pushed often in the movie, it was by people who didn't really know much about the scientific process. The people who pushed the button were Quarich and Selfridge's grunts, not the scientists who knew about the possible problems.

Txon Tsyal · January 10, 2010, 05:13:42 PM

Maybe they wanted to give Jake time to get his avatar to safety-the first thing thay asked Jake when he woke up is "Is the avatar safe?" Its better for Jake to stay awake as long as possible, than to take a long nap in a middle of a very hostile jungle.

Hawnuyu atìtse'a · January 10, 2010, 05:18:15 PM

Norm says you can't interrupt a link in progress, leading me to believe that it is dangerous to do so. Maybe some form of neural damage?

Sngä'i Tìrey-yä · January 10, 2010, 05:36:17 PM

You'd have to wonder if you could in effect get 'stuck' between the two bodies if your mind didn't have time to relax and disconnect naturally.

Like a coma or some such nonsense.

Hawnuyu atìtse'a · January 10, 2010, 05:39:21 PM

Or a ghost >.>

Roiki · January 10, 2010, 06:36:08 PM

I think the "shock" of being awakened suddenly could result in either some psychological trauma or brain damage, same thing with death or excessive damage to the avatars. As for the radios not working, most intra-squad radios have very limited range, usually no more than a kilometer or two in ideal conditions any obstacles will limit it quite a bit, since squad is supposed to stay together they don't need long range, which need more batteries and becomes heavy.

Maybe after Jake ran into the woods and off the waterfall, he was simply out of range since they didn't really know where to start looking.

Hawnuyu atìtse'a · January 10, 2010, 11:36:19 PM

I think PTSD would be very real. After Norm's avatar gets shot, he comes out of link clutching his chest. Now it's not the same as pushing the button, but it interrupted a link in progress.

bagget00 · January 11, 2010, 12:56:05 AM

Do you remember when quaritch pushes the button and they show Jake almost catatonic? He had a glazed look to his half closed eyes and was unresponsive for the first few moments. Maybe it gets worse each time of use.

Kìte'eyä Aungia · January 11, 2010, 01:54:18 AM

Even if it wasn't stated explicitly that pushing the red button is dangerous, how would this be a major plot hole? Let's say they did use the button to bring Jake back. He would have immediately told them that his Avatar was okay and gone right back in to keep it alive. No plot hole.