next time you see Avatar, look for...

[Kametu]

I remember in one of th shots where Jake was gettng into his uammoc the camera was looking from above, and I saw a couple of Na'vi in the background sleeping in this big dish thing.  It was ether cfor 1 or 2 shots, it was retry quick

[kintìomum]

I thought it was a bigger version of the hammock, but I'll have a look later (1.5h to go till the next viewing ).

[pbhead]

So what's wrong with what I said about reactors? Thappy to see that you know it's an isotope.
And Oxygen is toxic at a certain amount as well, if you stay a few days with just inhaling pure oxygen, you will suffer. Yes you'd probably mentions oxygen masks and etc that have more oxygen in than in air, that's right but it's because an oxygen pump is needed due to a condition of a lack of oxygen. And ye water diving masks use compounds high in oxygen, but those guys train for it and even if you take one of them and have a pure 100% oxygen mask attached to him, he'll eventually experience very unpleasant time. Yes and some of those masks contain high amount of helium , but they are also not used for a long time due to high risk for brain and tissue damage.
Of course all of them are toxic, but the debate is about Xe right? I don't know why are you refusing to believe that atmosphere with the mixture that is given for Pandora, is denser then Earth's by around 20% mainly due to Xe concentration (respectfully between the two atmospheres).

When did I say that the atmosphere of pandora is not denser becomes of the Xenon?  I said that the atmospheric pressure on pandora is 20% greater than on the earth, which i read from the survival guide... this is about whether or not Xenon is toxic... not what makes the atmosphere dense.

Did you not google "xenon poisioning" like I asked you too?
...
THIS is xenon poisioning:

The artificial isotope 135Xe is of considerable significance in the operation of nuclear fission reactors.  135Xe has a huge cross section for thermal neutrons, 2.65x106 barns, so it acts as a neutron absorber or "poison" that can slow or stop the chain reaction after a period of operation.

This is not:

Xenon is non-toxic... Like helium, xenon does not satisfy the body's need for oxygen and is a simple asphyxiant; consequently, many universities no longer allow the voice stunt as a general chemistry demonstration.

That's not "poisonous" that is "you are not breathing in nearly enough oxygen"... something not an issue on Pandora, which has has a high enough oxygen concentration to allow earth-like combustion... (which, if you know your chemistry, you should know that due to the high concentration of "products" (aka, CO2), would significantly slow combustion, and so  the oxygen concentration has to be higher on Pandora than on earth to allow the same rate of combustion.)

In concentrations under 50%, it is generally considered medically safe when used as an inhalant, although it does have mild narcotic effects.

this is a cool read: http://www.news-medical.net/news/20090727/New-system-may-allow-use-of-xenon-to-protect-newborn-brain.aspx

I could keep googling things for you... i really shouldnt need to.

I have no idea what the poster has to deal with, so what a guy who used to smoke shrroms everyday was about to get a grant from one of the biggest schools (Einstein academy or MIT, IIRC) does it say anything if someone has a che poster and another one has dozens of sport poster? No.
Whatever this went way beyond what the thread is all about, you are welcome to keep it in a different forum so posters here won't get confused and still keep on the right topic and not something that is completely out there.

Your really great at Ad hominem.  Hiding behind "off topic" is cute as well.  The 18% CO2 concentration of pandora's atmosphere will kill you LONG before you could think about "herm I wonder if this 5% xenon is having a negative effect on me"

[TorukMakto!]

So what's wrong with what I said about reactors? Thappy to see that you know it's an isotope.
And Oxygen is toxic at a certain amount as well, if you stay a few days with just inhaling pure oxygen, you will suffer. Yes you'd probably mentions oxygen masks and etc that have more oxygen in than in air, that's right but it's because an oxygen pump is needed due to a condition of a lack of oxygen. And ye water diving masks use compounds high in oxygen, but those guys train for it and even if you take one of them and have a pure 100% oxygen mask attached to him, he'll eventually experience very unpleasant time. Yes and some of those masks contain high amount of helium , but they are also not used for a long time due to high risk for brain and tissue damage.
Of course all of them are toxic, but the debate is about Xe right? I don't know why are you refusing to believe that atmosphere with the mixture that is given for Pandora, is denser then Earth's by around 20% mainly due to Xe concentration (respectfully between the two atmospheres).

When did I say that the atmosphere of pandora is not denser becomes of the Xenon?  I said that the atmospheric pressure on pandora is 20% greater than on the earth, which i read from the survival guide... this is about whether or not Xenon is toxic... not what makes the atmosphere dense.

Did you not google "xenon poisioning" like I asked you too?
...
THIS is xenon poisioning:

The artificial isotope 135Xe is of considerable significance in the operation of nuclear fission reactors.  135Xe has a huge cross section for thermal neutrons, 2.65x106 barns, so it acts as a neutron absorber or "poison" that can slow or stop the chain reaction after a period of operation.

This is not:

Xenon is non-toxic... Like helium, xenon does not satisfy the body's need for oxygen and is a simple asphyxiant; consequently, many universities no longer allow the voice stunt as a general chemistry demonstration.

That's not "poisonous" that is "you are not breathing in nearly enough oxygen"... something not an issue on Pandora, which has has a high enough oxygen concentration to allow earth-like combustion... (which, if you know your chemistry, you should know that due to the high concentration of "products" (aka, CO2), would significantly slow combustion, and so  the oxygen concentration has to be higher on Pandora than on earth to allow the same rate of combustion.)

I have no idea what the poster has to deal with, so what a guy who used to smoke shrroms everyday was about to get a grant from one of the biggest schools (Einstein academy or MIT, IIRC) does it say anything if someone has a che poster and another one has dozens of sport poster? No.
Whatever this went way beyond what the thread is all about, you are welcome to keep it in a different forum so posters here won't get confused and still keep on the right topic and not something that is completely out there.

Your really great at Ad hominem.  Hiding behind "off topic" is cute as well.  The 18% CO2 concentration of pandora's atmosphere will kill you LONG before you could think about "herm I wonder if this 5% xenon is having a negative effect on me"

First of all you can't just leave it alone, like I suggested take to the appropriate forum (we got enough sub-forums and PM system), so people here won't get confused from the overlapness and stay on what this thread is all about.
So at least you agree with me that xenon is a significant factor in Pandor'a denser atmosphere? good that's a step.
And you still claim that xenon is not dangerous, next time in your college lab session ask you professor if it's dangerous inhaling it and what happens,perhaps run an experiment about this.
Combustion is just an exoth reaction between fuel and an oxidant resulting in chemical products (usually carbon dioxide, water) and form of heat. Where does it sayor why did you assume that the combustion rates are equal and that on Pandora you have far more oxygen then on Earth? I  saw that there is nitrogen and oxygen as the big components on Pandora. If you have an info about having a lot more oxygen on Pandora, then yes this scenario is possible.
I never said that carbon dioxide isn't dangerous, but whether it's the carbon dioxide or xenon that will strike , I don't know , it needs to be empirically calculated or experimental shown, preferably both.

Have no idea what is the Ad hominem means. Wow the cute compliment, I hear that from the fair sex, like last night.

[Ftiafpi]

Generic admin comment about staying on topic and starting a new thread and such

P.S. If you guys like I can take the xenon stuff and merge it into a new thread?

[Tutean-tìhawnu]

Look for the Flamethrower armed AMP Suit in the background just before Neytiri's ikran is shot down

[TorukMakto!]

Generic admin comment about staying on topic and starting a new thread and such

P.S. If you guys like I can take the xenon stuff and merge it into a new thread?

I really can care less, I'd rather, as you said stay on topic of this thread and not surf to unknown boundaries all the time, there's enough space in the forum where this can be taken too. I'm basically done with that, unless the discussion goes forward.

Look for the Flamethrower armed AMP Suit in the background just before Neytiri's ikran is shot down

Yea, I saw that. It's one of the main AMP's in ground battle.
We had "Flamethrower" AMP and "Ye, get some" AMP .

[kintìomum]

Some more to hunt down:
- Look for the manufacturer logo on the rifle stocks (Matanza Armaments Corp next to a set of little boxes)

- The asian labtech operating Grace's link is scurrying out of view as soon as Grace leaves the link in the introduction scene and you can hear her in the background: "Where's the coat? Where is the coat?"

- little markers on the 3D-map in the command center in and around the mine with percentages on them. Perhaps for purity of Unobtanium at these locations?

- same location, scene when Grace tries to explain Eywa: are the numbers actually lower? I thought so but might need another view to make sure...

- When the clans arrive at the tree of souls you can see a large trail of the riders coming in. They seem to have a sturmbeest with them for carrying heavier stuff.

- Tsu'tey falling from the ramp of the Valkyrie and starting to turn for a leaf-fall (I guess that's a remnant of the deleted scene with his death)

[pbhead]

next time you see avatar look for "fire"  Jake's torch, the flame thowers, and the destruction of hometree.

Its preety amazing that things burn on pandora.

here on earth, we are very lucky to have 21% oxygen in our atmosphere... and this 21% means that fire works the way it does.  If the oxygen content was higher, wood would practicly explode, instead of burn, and if it was lower, there would not be enough oxygen to sustain a reaction.  

For anyone who knows any chemistry, they would know that an increase in reactants increases the rate of reaction, and an increase in products tends to decrease reaction rates.

On earth, the "products" of combustion (CO2) are not very present in our atmosphere, however, on pandora, 18% of the atmosphere is CO2.  

However, the atmosphere on pandora is also 1.2 atms, which would, of course have the effect of increasing the rate things burn.

The survival guide does not tell us the 02 or N concentration, however, we could calculate these concentrations by figuring out the 02 concentration required to allow fire very similar to the fire we see here on earth. Once we find the required 02 level, the rest has to be the inert and harmless gasses that make up the rest of the atmoshpere, mostly N, but we also know that 5.5% of pandoran atmosphere, is Xe, and some other trace gasses... which have no effect on combustion... but we would need account for these to figure out the exact composition of the nitrogen in Pandora's atmosphere.

Spoiler

(if it wasnt so cost prohibitive, I would get my arse a few liters of Xe, head to a scuba store, and get them to mix me a custom mix of 21% O2, 5.5% xenon, 72% N and then breath it in front of my webcam untill you eat your words... or you could just look at a few material saftey data sheets) http://www.concordegas.com/MSDS-Data-Sheets/pdf/MSDS%20%20Xenon.pdf)  Or, even better, go the the PHMSA website, and look at its rating... one for health...

heres some more info on Xenon:
Regulatory / Health
•CAS Number
◦7440-63-3
•OSHA Permissible Exposure Limit (PEL)
◦No limits set by OSHA
•OSHA PEL Vacated 1989
◦No limits set by OSHA
•NIOSH Recommended Exposure Limit (REL)
◦No limits set by NIOSH

The flippen xenon in pandora's atmosphere will not kill you, no matter how hard you try... the CO2 will.  Pandoran air + massive CO2 scrubber = alive, happy humans

[Kätsyín te Zotxekay Tsyal’itan]

Some more to hunt down:
- Look for the manufacturer logo on the rifle stocks (Matanza Armaments Corp next to a set of little boxes)

- The asian labtech operating Grace's link is scurrying out of view as soon as Grace leaves the link in the introduction scene and you can hear her in the background: "Where's the coat? Where is the coat?"

- little markers on the 3D-map in the command center in and around the mine with percentages on them. Perhaps for purity of Unobtanium at these locations?

- same location, scene when Grace tries to explain Eywa: are the numbers actually lower? I thought so but might need another view to make sure...

- When the clans arrive at the tree of souls you can see a large trail of the riders coming in. They seem to have a sturmbeest with them for carrying heavier stuff.

- Tsu'tey falling from the ramp of the Valkyrie and starting to turn for a leaf-fall (I guess that's a remnant of the deleted scene with his death)

I did see Tsu'tey turning for the leaf fall, and I kinda wondered why he did that until I heard about the cut scene.

[Tsa'räni]

The amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere doesn't affect combustion unless that carbon dioxide is restricting the amount of oxygen available for combustion (this is the case with fire extinguishers...they stop the combustion reaction because they push all the oxygen away).  The nature of heat convection and fluid dynamics regarding an open flame means Pandora's level of carbon dioxide will not affect combustion, as plenty of oxygen will still make it to the reaction site.  In essence, this is an open system, not a closed system.

The amount of oxygen can be assumed to be close enough to Earth's atmosphere as the ASG states the partial pressure of oxygen (yes, I'm aware it's not this simple...but it's close enough for this discussion) in Pandora's atmosphere is the same as Earths.  In addition, the exopacks only need to filter out harmful gases, so the amount of oxygen taken in with each breath must be reasonably close to Earth's own atmosphere.

Sorry for the OT, but I felt that misunderstanding needed to be cleared up.

[Lightna]

I'm sure someone may have mentioned this but I'm throwing it out there.

When you see Avatar next, pay attention to Trudy's cockpit on her samson. The glass has some bullet holes. In the final battle, you see Trudy flying without a mask on and I highly doubt they could've replaced the cockpit glass unless they had some sort of plug for the bullet holes.

[Meuia te Stxeli Tstew'itan]

I'm sure someone may have mentioned this but I'm throwing it out there.

When you see Avatar next, pay attention to Trudy's cockpit on her samson. The glass has some bullet holes. In the final battle, you see Trudy flying without a mask on and I highly doubt they could've replaced the cockpit glass unless they had some sort of plug for the bullet holes.

It was patched with duck-tape.

[Lightna]

I'm sure someone may have mentioned this but I'm throwing it out there.

When you see Avatar next, pay attention to Trudy's cockpit on her samson. The glass has some bullet holes. In the final battle, you see Trudy flying without a mask on and I highly doubt they could've replaced the cockpit glass unless they had some sort of plug for the bullet holes.

It was patched with duck-tape.

... Why didn't I think of that!? Duct-tape can do anything! >.<

[Eyamsiyu]

I'm sure someone may have mentioned this but I'm throwing it out there.

When you see Avatar next, pay attention to Trudy's cockpit on her samson. The glass has some bullet holes. In the final battle, you see Trudy flying without a mask on and I highly doubt they could've replaced the cockpit glass unless they had some sort of plug for the bullet holes.

It was patched with duck-tape.

... Why didn't I think of that!? Duct-tape can do anything! >.<

You know, Tesla once claimed that with a few well times explosions, he could split the world in half.  Well, even if he succeeded, the miracle that is duct tape would still keep it together.

[Zefanaya]

duck tape is amazing i have like two roles in my car, and if I were to take anything to pandora it would be duck tape. Also thanks for the list of things to look for I never really noticed some of them before also (off topic) do you think RDA runs mac or pc or "RDA Soft" (no that is note real just thought it sounded cool).
Eywa naghu niwotx Na'via

[pbhead]

The amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere doesn't affect combustion unless that carbon dioxide is restricting the amount of oxygen available for combustion (this is the case with fire extinguishers...they stop the combustion reaction because they push all the oxygen away).  The nature of heat convection and fluid dynamics regarding an open flame means Pandora's level of carbon dioxide will not affect combustion, as plenty of oxygen will still make it to the reaction site.  In essence, this is an open system, not a closed system.

The amount of oxygen can be assumed to be close enough to Earth's atmosphere as the ASG states the partial pressure of oxygen (yes, I'm aware it's not this simple...but it's close enough for this discussion) in Pandora's atmosphere is the same as Earths.  In addition, the exopacks only need to filter out harmful gases, so the amount of oxygen taken in with each breath must be reasonably close to Earth's own atmosphere.

Sorry for the OT, but I felt that misunderstanding needed to be cleared up.

very cool dude. I did not realize the ASG mentioned the partial pressures... and i think thats cool that you caught my mistake.  You sir, are the win.


I dont know if the RDA is pc, but they are definately not mac. (linux anyone?)

[Technowraith]

The amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere doesn't affect combustion unless that carbon dioxide is restricting the amount of oxygen available for combustion (this is the case with fire extinguishers...they stop the combustion reaction because they push all the oxygen away).  The nature of heat convection and fluid dynamics regarding an open flame means Pandora's level of carbon dioxide will not affect combustion, as plenty of oxygen will still make it to the reaction site.  In essence, this is an open system, not a closed system.

The amount of oxygen can be assumed to be close enough to Earth's atmosphere as the ASG states the partial pressure of oxygen (yes, I'm aware it's not this simple...but it's close enough for this discussion) in Pandora's atmosphere is the same as Earths.  In addition, the exopacks only need to filter out harmful gases, so the amount of oxygen taken in with each breath must be reasonably close to Earth's own atmosphere.

Sorry for the OT, but I felt that misunderstanding needed to be cleared up.

very cool dude. I did not realize the ASG mentioned the partial pressures... and i think thats cool that you caught my mistake.  You sir, are the win.


I dont know if the RDA is pc, but they are definately not mac. (linux anyone?)

Microsoft may not even exist by this time anymore. There's far more advanced technology in use at this time. I can imagine the technology in use in avatar being available in 10 or so years.

[kintìomum]

I hardly tried to make out if there are any producer logos on the screens or on their handhelds (especially after finding Matanza Armaments Corp on the rifle stocks) but I couldn't.
Part of it doesn't seem too advanced from todays technology. They basically use flatscreens without frame and a more touch-/voice-operated method for controlling their software. The basics for these are avaiable...

I got another one that might shed light on the distances in the movie:
When Jake is first lead to the ikran aerie you can see a set of three waterfalls very close to each other at the upper side of the picture (most likely they are from one river that's just separated at the edge).
When Jake and Neytiri later walk along the giant tree trunk/bridge to the Tree(s) of Voices they pass some waterfalls. Are these the same?

[Meuia te Stxeli Tstew'itan]

Microsoft may not even exist by this time anymore. There's far more advanced technology in use at this time. I can imagine the technology in use in avatar being available in 10 or so years.

Lol! There's far more advanced technology and yet we'll get it in 10 years. I bet 20 years. Some of this stuff is very complex, you can see that every screen use glasses-free 3D technology and have at least 4k resolution. For that, they must have very powerful controllers which we'll not see before a long time. At least, we're closing on the transparent screens and sphere screens.