next time you see Avatar, look for...

Started by Will Txankamuse, January 27, 2010, 04:10:01 PM

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pbhead

hell's gate prolly puts out a pathetic ammount of CO2 compared to what would be naturally occoring on that planet. The pandoran atmospere already contains somewhere around 18% CO2 if i remember correctly, compared to the  <1% on earth.

heh, the entire human race on earth generates around 30 gigatonns of CO2 per year... compared to... over 100 gigatonns from forest fires per year... The ammount of C02 that that little humn colony at hell's gate produces is nothing.

Oh, and pandora's atmosphere is 20% thicker than earths. so... it would take rediculous ammounts of C02 production to change anything on pandora in any measurable way.

What the real question should be is: where did they find the gas to power their machines?  I didnt see any oil rigs...  :-\


Meuia te Stxeli Tstew'itan

Quote from: pbhead on February 12, 2010, 05:44:27 PM
hell's gate prolly puts out a pathetic ammount of CO2 compared to what would be naturally occoring on that planet. The pandoran atmospere already contains somewhere around 18% CO2 if i remember correctly, compared the >1% on earth.

heh, the entire human race on earth generates around 30 gigatonns of CO2 per year... compared to... over 100 gigatonns from forest fires per year... The ammount of C02 that that little humn colony at hell's gate produces is nothing.

Oh, and pandora's atmosphere is 20% thicker than earths. so... it would take rediculous ammounts of C02 production to change anything on pandora in any measurable way.

What the real question should be is: where did they find the gas to power their machines?  I didnt see any oil rigs...  :-\



I'm sorry to pop your bubble, but we only have 387 ppmv (0.0387%) of CO2 in earth atmosphere :P
Fìtsenge kifkey nìswey livu txo ayoe nìNa'vi perlltxeie. Ngal 'awstengyem olo'it fpi tskxekeng.

pbhead

#82
ya, I realized that I put the less than sign the wrong way right after posting... and i was really hopeing no one would notice the greater than sign for the 30 or so seconds it was there... but ya, its fixed so it says less than 1% now.

however... .0387% is a much more exact number than my "less than 1%" anyway, and it only makes my point clearer...
pandora already has close to 500 times the CO2 concentration of earth... so... ya... that little human colony is nothing.

Meuia te Stxeli Tstew'itan

Quote from: pbhead on February 12, 2010, 06:16:23 PM
ya, I realized that I put the less than sign the wrong way right after posting... and i was really hopeing no one would notice the greater than sign for the 30 or so seconds it was there...

Email notifications + Push email = Instant failure detection  ;D
Fìtsenge kifkey nìswey livu txo ayoe nìNa'vi perlltxeie. Ngal 'awstengyem olo'it fpi tskxekeng.

TorukMakto!

Atmosphere comparison.
Earth : 78% nitrgoen, 21% oxygen, 0.93% Argon, 0.038% carbon dioxide, about 1% water (as vapor) and also other traces of gases such as carbon monoxide, nitrogen oxide, nitrogen dioxide, iodide and more.
Pandora: nitrogen, oxygen, carbon dioxide (>18%), xenon (>5.5%), methane, and hydrogen sulfide (>1%) and traces of other gases. On Pandora nitrogen and oxygen are also most common gases, the atmosphere is 20% more doesn't is due to the big amount of xenon. Why is it poisonous to humans? this is due to the big amount of xenon and also carbon dioxide. The big amount of xenon will cause a xenon poisoning to humans, Na'vi has some kind of different physiology that allows them to deal with this mixture.

pbhead

clipped from wikipedia:

Xenon is non-toxic, although it does dissolve in blood and belongs to a select group of substances that penetrate the blood-brain barrier, causing mild to full surgical anesthesia when inhaled in high concentrations with oxygen (see anesthesia subsection above).

It is possible to safely breathe heavy gases such as xenon or sulfur hexafluoride when they include a 20% mixture of oxygen (although xenon at this concentration would be expected to produce the unconsciousness of general anesthesia).

In other words... the main poisonous bit in the pandoran atmosphere is the CO2, not the Xenon... although i would have to guess that the Xenon might make your death a little less painfull.

TorukMakto!

Quote from: pbhead on February 12, 2010, 06:50:39 PM
clipped from wikipedia:

Xenon is non-toxic, although it does dissolve in blood and belongs to a select group of substances that penetrate the blood-brain barrier, causing mild to full surgical anesthesia when inhaled in high concentrations with oxygen (see anesthesia subsection above).

It is possible to safely breathe heavy gases such as xenon or sulfur hexafluoride when they include a 20% mixture of oxygen (although xenon at this concentration would be expected to produce the unconsciousness of general anesthesia).

In other words... the main poisonous bit in the pandoran atmosphere is the CO2, not the Xenon... although i would have to guess that the Xenon might make your death a little less painfull.

One problem, it's taking about xenon in low concentration that isn't poisonous, it's not close to a case when you have atmosphere with over 5% of xenon. If you have a big amount, and ye 5% in an atmosphere of such gas is a big amount , it becomes poisonous.
Even in reactors, that contains xenon, if one brakes, you are not allowed to fix one before 6 hours are passed and you can restart it only after 4 days. So yes xenon is poisonous when there is a big amount of it and not a trace of it, luckily what we have here on Earth is just traces of xenon, on Pandora the case is different.

pbhead

xenon is used as an anestesia... in hospitals.

read the article.

TorukMakto!

Doesn't matter about the article. And I do know it is used as part of anesthesia. But I also do know it's used in reactors as I described, if for some reason you don't want to understand the fact the xenon is poisonous I recommend you to ask a Chem/Biochem/science professor to explain it or run a further research.
Once again small amount of xenon isn't dangerous (like the once described in the article), but more concentrated amounts will be deadly. It's understood that what causes the denser atmosphere on a planet with an atmosphere like Pandora is primarily the big amount of xenon in the atmosphere compared to the one on Earth..
Xenon poisoning can be deadly by causing asphyxia.

'Itan Atxur

Next time you see Avatar, look for...

... The red Olo'eyktan (Ikran clan). She's also Neytiri's stunt double.

Check out more from my DeviantArt page HERE

tsrräfkxätu

#90
...how both Neytiri and Jake hold the bow in their left, and draw it with their right. (I don't remember the others, tough.)

This is weird for two reasons:
* that's how left-handed folks use a bow (maybe lefties are the majority in the Na'vi population?),
* the left-side tsahaylu would constantly get in the way of your left-hand archery (e.g. when on pa'liback), whereas one on your right would be very comfortable in this respect. Contradiction?
párolt zöldség — muntxa fkxen  

'Itan Atxur

I'm willing to let little things like that go. It may have been done to make the shot look cooler or something like that.

Check out more from my DeviantArt page HERE

pbhead

#92
Quote from: TorukMakto! on February 12, 2010, 08:36:16 PM
Doesn't matter about the article. And I do know it is used as part of anesthesia. But I also do know it's used in reactors as I described, if for some reason you don't want to understand the fact the xenon is poisonous I recommend you to ask a Chem/Biochem/science professor to explain it or run a further research.
Once again small amount of xenon isn't dangerous (like the once described in the article), but more concentrated amounts will be deadly. It's understood that what causes the denser atmosphere on a planet with an atmosphere like Pandora is primarily the big amount of xenon in the atmosphere compared to the one on Earth..
Xenon poisoning can be deadly by causing asphyxia.


SO.... Xenon poisioning is.. asphyxia? is that what your trying to tell me?  

...

By the same argument, helium is also poisionous.. .cause if you breath it you might die of asphyxia too.

same with hydrogen, nitrogen, krypton, argon, any gas that is NOT oxygen.


the Xenon concentration is a measly 5%! on pandora...  you can breath a mixture of 80% xenon and 20% oxygen, and still be FINE. (Knocked out, but fine)

Now, nuclear reactors give off a very lovely isotope of Xenon... which is radioactive... which would be why your reactor is not allowed to be worked on (perhaps) and compounds of xenon are toxic (but they are not gases..)

I am a chem nut... My only poster in my room is a giant full color periodic table of the elements... I am looking at a zillion credible sources here... whatever


Edit:  google "xenon poisioning" there are only 10,700 results, and they all have to do with radioactive xenon poisioning the nuclear reactors, not people.

Txontaw

Quote from: tsrräfkxätu on February 12, 2010, 09:19:40 PM
...how both Neytiri and Jake hold the bow in their left, and draw it with their right. (I don't remember the others, tough.)

This is weird for two reasons:
* that's how left-handed folks use a bow (maybe lefties are the majority in the Na'vi population?),
* the left-side tsahaylu would constantly get in the way of your left-hand archery (e.g. when on pa'liback), whereas one on your right would be very comfortable in this respect. Contradiction?

I dunno why it would. The queues hang pretty low, so I don't think it would really get in the way.
"You're not in Kansas anymore. You're on Pandora, Ladies and Gentlemen." - Colonel Quaritch


Txonyä'ite

Quote from: tsrräfkxätu on February 12, 2010, 09:19:40 PM
...how both Neytiri and Jake hold the bow in their left, and draw it with their right. (I don't remember the others, tough.)

This is weird for two reasons:
* that's how left-handed folks use a bow (maybe lefties are the majority in the Na'vi population?),
* the left-side tsahaylu would constantly get in the way of your left-hand archery (e.g. when on pa'liback), whereas one on your right would be very comfortable in this respect. Contradiction?

I'm a righty and that is how I shoot as well. I was taught that way, maybe I'm weird :p

kintìomum

Don't take any of this for viable source since I don't remember where I picked it up.
When the archery advisor was introduced to the set and saw how JC held the bow (in the Na'vi way) he asked if he really should be teaching that method because it was in his view a bit impractical and harder to learn for a rookie than the traditional hold-left-draw-right stance that's mainly used.
JC told him: You see that bush back there? I just nailed it with an arrow so don't tell me it's impractical. And it looks cool, what's why I want it in the movie. So go on!
And since JC is a lefty it explains the hold-right-draw-left...
kintìomum : curiosity (lit.: need knowledge)

"You don't dream in cryo" they say. Good! Imagine a 6-year-nightmare!

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Kametu

Look for...

... It would seem that in addition to those hammoc things, the navi also sleep in these bowl/dish things?  I think I remember seeing it in a few shots.  Can anybody verify?

TorukMakto!

Quote from: pbhead on February 12, 2010, 09:45:40 PM
Quote from: TorukMakto! on February 12, 2010, 08:36:16 PM
Doesn't matter about the article. And I do know it is used as part of anesthesia. But I also do know it's used in reactors as I described, if for some reason you don't want to understand the fact the xenon is poisonous I recommend you to ask a Chem/Biochem/science professor to explain it or run a further research.
Once again small amount of xenon isn't dangerous (like the once described in the article), but more concentrated amounts will be deadly. It's understood that what causes the denser atmosphere on a planet with an atmosphere like Pandora is primarily the big amount of xenon in the atmosphere compared to the one on Earth..
Xenon poisoning can be deadly by causing asphyxia.


SO.... Xenon poisioning is.. asphyxia? is that what your trying to tell me?  

...

By the same argument, helium is also poisionous.. .cause if you breath it you might die of asphyxia too.

same with hydrogen, nitrogen, krypton, argon, any gas that is NOT oxygen.


the Xenon concentration is a measly 5%! on pandora...  you can breath a mixture of 80% xenon and 20% oxygen, and still be FINE. (Knocked out, but fine)

Now, nuclear reactors give off a very lovely isotope of Xenon... which is radioactive... which would be why your reactor is not allowed to be worked on (perhaps) and compounds of xenon are toxic (but they are not gases..)

I am a chem nut... My only poster in my room is a giant full color periodic table of the elements... I am looking at a zillion credible sources here... whatever


Edit:  google "xenon poisioning" there are only 10,700 results, and they all have to do with radioactive xenon poisioning the nuclear reactors, not people.
So what's wrong with what I said about reactors? Thappy to see that you know it's an isotope.
And Oxygen is toxic at a certain amount as well, if you stay a few days with just inhaling pure oxygen, you will suffer. Yes you'd probably mentions oxygen masks and etc that have more oxygen in than in air, that's right but it's because an oxygen pump is needed due to a condition of a lack of oxygen. And ye water diving masks use compounds high in oxygen, but those guys train for it and even if you take one of them and have a pure 100% oxygen mask attached to him, he'll eventually experience very unpleasant time. Yes and some of those masks contain high amount of helium , but they are also not used for a long time due to high risk for brain and tissue damage.
Of course all of them are toxic, but the debate is about Xe right? I don't know why are you refusing to believe that atmosphere with the mixture that is given for Pandora, is denser then Earth's by around 20% mainly due to Xe concentration (respectfully between the two atmospheres).

Of course Xe isn't as lethal as PS or GB vapors.

I have no idea what the poster has to deal with, so what a guy who used to smoke shrroms everyday was about to get a grant from one of the biggest schools (Einstein academy or MIT, IIRC) does it say anything if someone has a che poster and another one has dozens of sport poster? No.
Whatever this went way beyond what the thread is all about, you are welcome to keep it in a different forum so posters here won't get confused and still keep on the right topic and not something that is completely out there.

TorukMakto!

Quote from: kintìomum on February 13, 2010, 01:04:30 AM
Don't take any of this for viable source since I don't remember where I picked it up.
When the archery advisor was introduced to the set and saw how JC held the bow (in the Na'vi way) he asked if he really should be teaching that method because it was in his view a bit impractical and harder to learn for a rookie than the traditional hold-left-draw-right stance that's mainly used.
JC told him: You see that bush back there? I just nailed it with an arrow so don't tell me it's impractical. And it looks cool, what's why I want it in the movie. So go on!
And since JC is a lefty it explains the hold-right-draw-left...


Irayo, very interesting, would like to see the source if you'll have the chance to find it
Quote from: Kametu on February 13, 2010, 01:33:29 AM
Look for...

... It would seem that in addition to those hammoc things, the navi also sleep in these bowl/dish things?  I think I remember seeing it in a few shots.  Can anybody verify?

I didn't quite get what you were referring to, would you mind to explain more ?
I remember those hammoc things, that Jake jumped into and Neytiri gave him the "cold shoulder" :P

Swizaw Nguway

Quote from: TorukMakto! on February 13, 2010, 02:02:55 AM
Quote from: kintìomum on February 13, 2010, 01:04:30 AM
I remember those hammoc things, that Jake jumped into and Neytiri gave him the "cold shoulder" :P
Haha yeah, i remember that part so well, jake must have beencrying inside :D. But yes, i never saw any dish/bowl things that the ma'vi sleep in. Tell me more :D