So... *Spoiler Topic*

Eyamsiyu · January 31, 2010, 12:24:02 AM

Who's Olo'Eyktan now?

I mean, the 2007 script states that the last battle happens quite differently and (to make it short) Tsu'tey, before he dies, names Jake his successor.

Nothing like that happened in the movie. So, what do you guys think?

Tirea Pa'li · January 31, 2010, 05:06:54 AM

Toruk Makto!
I cant imagine anyone from the tribe contesting his right to be clan leader!
But thats just my point. Maybe they have some line or heir. I`am not sure on succession.

tìngay mungeyu · January 31, 2010, 05:23:56 AM

I agree, Jake is the Olo'eyktan now because as you said, Tsu'tey named him.
On the other hand, who could lead the People better than the Toruk Makto? From the point he landed with toruk he has been respected by everyone.

Eyamsiyu · January 31, 2010, 08:32:37 AM

Well, I don't remember in the MOVIE it ever being said that Tsu'tey named Jake the successor. And yes, from that point, it would seem valid that, should there not be a named successor and there is a Toruk Makto among the tribe, he would be named.

Technowraith · January 31, 2010, 10:18:44 AM

Quote from: Autakuk'Ekong on January 31, 2010, 12:24:02 AM
Who's Olo'Eyktan now?

I mean, the 2007 script states that the last battle happens quite differently and (to make it short) Tsu'tey, before he dies, names Jake his successor.

Nothing like that happened in the movie. So, what do you guys think?

I believe it was stated during the movie that Tsu'tey was going to become the next Olo'Eyktan. I know the Neytiri is going to be the next Tsahik. I'm not sure if Jake would have accepted the position of Olo'Eyktan if Tsu'tey was still alive. He shows respect for Tsu-tey when returns as Toruk Makto. Now that Tsu'tey is dead, there is a possibility that Jake may become the next Olo'Eyktan. The sequel will tell us all we need to know.

Will Txankamuse · January 31, 2010, 11:21:38 AM

Jakesully is seen wearing the Thanator tooth neckpiece that marks him as the Olo'Eyktan at the end of the film. I presume that means he's taken charge.

Since it's likely that several missing scenes, including potentially the Tsu'tey queue-cutting one, will be readded in the bluray, I imagine Cameron wanted to leave the theatrical version ending consistent with the bluray release, but just left out the detailed explanation due to time constraints.

Will

Unilmokri · January 31, 2010, 12:39:08 PM

People also need to remember that Toruk Makto was only needed to unite and lead the clans in a "time of great sorrow".. Now that the Sky People have left, Toruk Makto is no longer needed - as we see and hear Jake say when the leonopteryx flies into the sunset after the battle.

It seems logical to assume that Jake is the new Olo'Eyktan, being that he for one thing was given the mantle when Tsu'tey died (in the manuscript), but, if that somehow eludes being shown in the DVD-release, also seeing as Jake did play a key part in repelling the invaders of Pandora, in my mind seeming to earn the gratitude of all Na'vi people.

Eyamsiyu · January 31, 2010, 03:19:40 PM

Quote from: Technowraith on January 31, 2010, 10:18:44 AM
The sequel will tell us all we need to know.

Tru dat!

Quote from: Will Txankamuse on January 31, 2010, 11:21:38 AM
Jakesully is seen wearing the Thanator tooth neckpiece that marks him as the Olo'Eyktan at the end of the film. I presume that means he's taken charge.

Something to look for next time I see the movie, I guess.

EDIT: You can never really be too sure of this source, but I just read the Wikipedia (normal one) article on the movie, and it mentions at the very end of the plot that "Jake is seen wearing the insignia of the Omaticaya leader." I believe that it is officially confirmed that Jake is Olo'eyktan now.

Tirea Pa'li · January 31, 2010, 05:56:58 PM

I dont know if they will add the death of Tsu`tey in the dvd. He got shot. Well maybe he can survive the fall, and then being captured. Either way we cant have both the attack on the shuttle and the original version. Cameron said in an interview that the scene was ready 100% and he decided to remove it in the last minute. He said it was shifting the focus and adding too much emotion in already very emotional moment. Maybe we get it in the "fan cut" (As he describes the term - directors cut). It`ll be such a waste to have a perfectly good and ready scene and not give it to US FANS!! GIEV MROE!@!!

Sngä'i Tìrey-yä · January 31, 2010, 06:18:09 PM

Well don't forget that not only did he take command, but he also has mated with the next tsa'hik, so traditionally he would become clan leader for that if nothing else.

tìngay mungeyu · January 31, 2010, 06:43:03 PM

Quote from: Sngä'i Tìrey-yä on January 31, 2010, 06:18:09 PM
Well don't forget that not only did he take command, but he also has mated with the next tsa'hik, so traditionally he would become clan leader for that if nothing else.

Well, good point of view, but I can't agree with you, bacause it is not Jake who becomes an Olo'Eyktan as he has mated with Ney'tiri, but it is Ney'tiri who losts her right to be the next tsa'hik. You can read about this in the manuscript:

Ney'tiri: "We are mated before Eywa. It is done."
...
Mo'at: "Neytiri! If you choose this path, you can never be Tsahik. Your life will be wasted."
Ney'tiri: "I have chosen."

Sngä'i Tìrey-yä · January 31, 2010, 07:48:24 PM

Quote from: tìngay mungeyu on January 31, 2010, 06:43:03 PM
Quote from: Sngä'i Tìrey-yä on January 31, 2010, 06:18:09 PM
Well don't forget that not only did he take command, but he also has mated with the next tsa'hik, so traditionally he would become clan leader for that if nothing else.

Well, good point of view, but I can't agree with you, bacause it is not Jake who becomes an Olo'Eyktan as he has mated with Ney'tiri, but it is Ney'tiri who losts her right to be the next tsa'hik. You can read about this in the manuscript:

Ney'tiri: "We are mated before Eywa. It is done."
...
Mo'at: "Neytiri! If you choose this path, you can never be Tsahik. Your life will be wasted."
Ney'tiri: "I have chosen."

If Tsu'tey was alive, I'd agree with you. But as the last in the 'royal line' it would make sense that Neytiri's status would be reinstated and Jake with her, simply because she had been trained her entire life to take a leadership role. Logically, the people would choose the person who knew what to do, even if she had broken some sacred rule.

Eyamsiyu · January 31, 2010, 08:05:03 PM

Agreed. I mean, most Na'vi aren't going to know that Tsu'tey was killed until after the battle, and Jake was still alive. Therefore, it would just make sense to them.

Nawma 'eveng · January 31, 2010, 08:10:23 PM

Well its only logical that Jake is the clan leader. He wore the ornaments, the three carved bones neckpiece, that is somewhat similar to what Eykutan wore at first. In addition to that, Jake mated with the child of the clan leader and the matriach (tsahik). Can't think of another resonable candiate otherwise...

Eyamsiyu · January 31, 2010, 08:13:35 PM

Like I said earlier, Wikipedia seems to confirm it...

Tìng Eywatikìte'e · February 01, 2010, 12:53:37 AM

It is confirmed that Jake is wearing the necklace at the end that shows him to be Olo'ekytan.

As for him becoming it because he was mated with Neytiri, I doubt it. We have discussed this a bit in more thoroughly over at the custom and culture board, but basically we have no real evidence that the leadership roles of the Na'vi are hereditary. Most evidence shows them to be merit based. Just because Neytiri, the daughter of the leaders, is to be the next Tsahík doesn't prove it is hereditary, she could have earned the title. Right now we just don't know enough to confirm anything.

If you wish to discuss this more though, please go over to the Custom and Culture board.