special edition **SPOILERS**

[Payä Tìrol]

Yes, because I'm sure those docs at H'sG would just love that
Plus, I don't think they'd know if any drugs would react the same way. The Na'vi are already a ridiculous case of convergent evolution with Humans. It'd be even more ridiculous if their physiology was similar enough too...

[Ekirä]

Yes, because I'm sure those docs at H'sG would just love that
Plus, I don't think they'd know if any drugs would react the same way. The Na'vi are already a ridiculous case of convergent evolution with Humans. It'd be even more ridiculous if their physiology was similar enough too...

I agree with that. I also believe that Tsu'tey would rather have his suffering relieved immediately, rather than slowly heal in a sterile, sawtute environment. Remember, the Na'vi have a much different idea of death than most of our culture does. Dying is not the end of the world for them.

[archaic]

"Thousand milligrams of Sutherpan" is what they were going to inject Jake's avatar with, to put him out, when he wouldn't sit and do the touching fingers to thumbs test, before he ran off into the avatar compound.

If Sutherpan works on Avatar's, it should to work on Na'vi.
Surgery is surgery, dig out the bullets and patch up the damage.
If necessary, keep him mildly sedated during his recovery.

If Jake had told Tsu'tey that Max and friends could fix him up, I'm not sure he'd be so keen to run with Ewya so soon.

[Muzer]

Well, originally it was supposed to be that his queue was cut off, of course (from the 2007 script) - I still think they should have used that.

[Payä Tìrol]

He took something like 6 or 7 bullets to the lower thorax, upper abdomen, and fell a considerable distance, despite the lower gravity and denser atmosphere and some leaving breaking his fall, onto his back. He may have been paralyzed, probably lost a good deal of blood, but, to be honest, we have little knowledge of Na'vi anatomy other than similar muscle/skeletal layouts. If anything important was hit, and that did look to be the case to me at least, he'd need a lot more than a bit of anesthesia and some patching up.
We also know next to nothing about what kind of medical facilities they had... ~150 years in the future can mean anything, especially since all of their facilities and supplies were fabricated on Pandora. Max also looks to be a neurology specialist; even now, and probably moreso in the future, doctors specialize into one pretty narrow field, and receive next to no training on everything else. It looks like most of the staff that were chosen to stay were Link center staff, or Avatar drivers, which means that most of them would be neuro specs like Max, or xenobiologists/xenoanthropologists.
Despite the hostilities, we never see any ORs or ICUs for human casualties, and I can imagine the difficulty of trying to do surgery without Na'vi blood. >_>

[Lisa]

If Sutherpan works on Avatar's, it should to work on Na'vi.

The human/avatar link appears to terminate naturally with sleep, so perhaps sutherpan is the chemical equivalent of the big red button on the link pod controls, and not a sedative per se?   The avatar body seems to only possess basic biological functions like breathing and blood circulation when not linked to it's driver, so cutting the link would essentially "sedate" the avatar.

Arrgh.... more knowledge is needed! 

[Tuteyä amuiä 'itan]

ok i watched a copy i have downloaded with the subtitles and at the scene it says he says "1000mg of seconal" now i looked up seconal and got this

"Secobarbital is used on a short-term basis to treat insomnia (difficulty falling asleep or staying asleep). It is also used to relieve anxiety before surgery. Secobarbital is in a class of medications called barbiturates. It works by slowing activity in the brain."

[archaic]

Arrgh.... more knowledge is needed!  

Agreed, but a bit of speculation can be fun.

Avatars represent a significant investment for the RDA.
Pandora is quite a tough environment.
Avatars would inevitably get damaged from time to time, so being able to patch them up would be beneficial, if not vital to the program.
There might even be synthetic blood kept for the avatars, just in case.
The few who remained are basically Na'vi sympathizers, so would be happy to help Tsu'tey, and doctors have to do general medial before they specialize.

ok i watched a copy i have downloaded with the subtitles and at the scene it says he says "1000mg of seconal" now i looked up seconal and got this

My DVD subtitles give it as 'Supitocam', but that's still not what he say's.

[Ekirä]

ok i watched a copy i have downloaded with the subtitles and at the scene it says he says "1000mg of seconal" now i looked up seconal and got this

"Secobarbital is used on a short-term basis to treat insomnia (difficulty falling asleep or staying asleep). It is also used to relieve anxiety before surgery. Secobarbital is in a class of medications called barbiturates. It works by slowing activity in the brain."

Mine doesn't say seconal. I have the official DVD so I just set it with English subtitles; It says 1000 milligrams of Supitocam. Searching on Google, urban dictionary says Supitocam is: "A fictitious pharmaceutical used in the movie "Avatar" to sedate the humanoid Avatar bodies."

[Tuteyä amuiä 'itan]

lol o well i guess whoever set the titles felt like adding there own words... but at least they make sense lol

[archaic]

Irregardless of what it's called, there's something that would have taken away Tsu'tey's pain, Jake never mentioned it.

[Tuteyä amuiä 'itan]

Irregardless of what it's called, there's something that would have taken away Tsu'tey's pain, Jake never mentioned it.

indeed but i think he would have rather died by the way of tradition then survived by the hands of sawtute

[Payä Tìrol]

-The extent of a general surgery clerkship during MS3 is usually something like 6 weeks of general, and another 6 of a subspecialty. You basically get to try with aa more senior physician guiding you step by step. That's maybe enough time to make up your mind whether or not you want to pursue a surgery residency, but not much time to learn any depth. It seems like most of the Avatar pilots were Ph.D.s anyway.
-Don't forget that the battle took place a few hundred kilometers from H'sG, and the ikran and Na'vi did a pretty good job busting up the entire fleet of Samsons. You really don't want to move anyone with a potential spinal injury a couple hundred km on something like a flying animal, even a Toruk.
-I wouldn't be surprised if Jake used up the Trauma kit from Trudy's Samson on Grace. For all he knows, Hell's Gate is still hostile. Although Max's attack wasn't shown on screen, he wouldn't have had any way to contact Jake either way. Remember this happens *right* after the previous fight scene. Thus, medical help, even under the best circumstances, would have been far, far away.
-I also basically agree with Tuteyä... I highly doubt Tsu'tey, of all people, would have wanted anything offered in this regard...
-This discussion is becoming quite "You know when you're... when..."

[Ekirä]

-The extent of a general surgery clerkship during MS3 is usually something like 6 weeks of general, and another 6 of a subspecialty. You basically get to try with an more Senior physician guiding you step by step. That's maybe enough time to make up your mind whether or not you want to pursue a surgery residency, but not much time to learn any depth. It seems like most of the Avatar pilots were Ph.D.s anyway.
-Don't forget that the battle took place a few hundred kilometers from H'sG, and the ikran and Na'vi did a pretty good job busting up the entire fleet of Samsons. You really don't want to move anyone with a potential spinal injury a couple hundred km on something like a flying animal, even a Toruk.
-I wouldn't be surprised if Jake used up the Trauma kit from Trudy's Samson on Grace. For all he knows, Hell's Gate is still hostile. Although Max's attack wasn't shown on screen, he wouldn't have had any way to contact Jake either way. Remember this happens *right* after the previous fight scene. Thus, medical help, even under the best circumstances, would have been far, far away.
-I also basically agree with Tuteyä... I highly doubt Tsu'tey, of all people, would have wanted anything offered in this regard...
-This discussion is becoming quite "You know when you're... when..."

I completely agree with all this, especially about Tsu'tey not wanting medical help from the sawtute. There are obviously some people that are of a different opinion....and I think we'll just go around in circles trying to prove our points. But I'm not a discussion police, I'm fine if other people carry on. I'm just sayin'.

[Payä Tìrol]

Yeah, pretty much, although it's interesting to bring up certain points. I'll admit I hadn't considered the possibility of a more universal synthetic blood. I think they've actually got a product like that in FDA trials. It's basically a glorified liquid oxygen sponge, and breaks down horribly quickly in the body, but it apparently works well enough if you don't have real blood of the right type, and you can manufacture it.

[Human No More]

Tsu'tey lost his queue... even if he could be helped, he wouldn't want them to... No Na'vi would be able to live like that 

[Txura Rolyu]

Agreed... I wouldnt want to go to Pandora and live there only as a human... i would want to breath Pandora air and live the Na'vi life.

[Tsuksìm atsawl (KaPTan)]

Yeah, pretty much, although it's interesting to bring up certain points. I'll admit I hadn't considered the possibility of a more universal synthetic blood. I think they've actually got a product like that in FDA trials. It's basically a glorified liquid oxygen sponge, and breaks down horribly quickly in the body, but it apparently works well enough if you don't have real blood of the right type, and you can manufacture it.

ever played metal gear solid

I suggest, my friends, that if you wish to continue talking on this particular subject that you should make a new post and post the link here.  just a suggestion.

[Skxawng]

A thing to consider also is the ballistics of the weapon he was shot with.  Based on the size of the guns and ejected cartridges its safe to say the RDA soldier weapons primarily used a bullet similar to the .223's used AR-15's and similar Battle Carbine Rifles, which is surprising considering that the majority of the flora of Pandora are quite large; one would assume .308's or similar would be a standard. Perhaps the powder used is far more powerful than what is used, with a larger caliber bullet; who knows.

My point in bringing this up is, smaller bullets at high velocities tend to bounce around and fragment after initial penetration the more flesh they penetrate.  For example there have been cases where the tiny .22 LR round entered in somebody's stomach, and traveled up and around the chest cavity, finally exiting around the neck, causing significant internal damage.  The same round however, on smaller animals, tends to go straight through or follow a straighter trajectory.

Given the 'carbon fiber reinforced bones' and the clearly thicker/larger body I think that it is safe to assume that the 3-7 hits Tsu'tey sustained most likely fractured/fragmented and tumbled throughout his insides, most likely perforating internal, vital organs and arteries.  I doubt that anything that the lab had at the time would be sufficient to sustain and heal tsu'tey, if they were even able to get him back to hell's gate in time. Certainly cuts and wounds sustained by stabbing weapons, claws, etc, but gunshot wounds? Doubtful. Furthermore, there are troops still remaining at the base to contend with.

[Payä Tìrol]

Even the AMPsuit cannons appear to have little effect on the Titanotheres, which is surprising considering the KE those rounds must have.