"Trees" of voices ("s")

[Kaltxì Palulukan!]

Okay, so this is a minor point, but there were, it looked like 8-12 "Trees of Voices" (we always seem to say "Tree" as in "one" around here). It was obviously a grove, but that is not the point. This is:

My question is, for anyone who will be seeing Avatar this week: I thought I heard Neytiri say "We call them Utral Aymokriyä but then starts talking about ONE tree, the tree they are at. I want to capture that line (in my head, not "illegally") and I am wondering if anyone else caught that, or will catch it. I swear I am bringing a pen and notepad the next few times I see this movie.

[bagget00]

She said, "We call these trees Utral Aymokriyä, The tree of voices."

[Technowraith]

Okay, so this is a minor point, but there were, it looked like 8-12 "Trees of Voices" (we always seem to say "Tree" as in "one" around here). It was obviously a grove, but that is not the point. This is:

My question is, for anyone who will be seeing Avatar this week: I thought I heard Neytiri say "We call them Utral Aymokriyä but then starts talking about ONE tree, the tree they are at. I want to capture that line (in my head, not "illegally") and I am wondering if anyone else caught that, or will catch it. I swear I am bringing a pen and notepad the next few times I see this movie.

she did say "These trees." Obviously there are more than one, like an internet cafe. Gotta have more than one connection available in case a few na'vi want to commune with eywa and the ancestors at once. Which begs the question, do the Utral Aymokria (sorry, haven't set up for na'vi typing just yet) always grow in groves or can they grow in single specimens?

[Kaltxì Palulukan!]

Okay, so this is a minor point, but there were, it looked like 8-12 "Trees of Voices" (we always seem to say "Tree" as in "one" around here). It was obviously a grove, but that is not the point. This is:

My question is, for anyone who will be seeing Avatar this week: I thought I heard Neytiri say "We call them Utral Aymokriyä but then starts talking about ONE tree, the tree they are at. I want to capture that line (in my head, not "illegally") and I am wondering if anyone else caught that, or will catch it. I swear I am bringing a pen and notepad the next few times I see this movie.

she did say "These trees." Obviously there are more than one, like an internet cafe. Gotta have more than one connection available in case a few na'vi want to commune with eywa and the ancestors at once. Which begs the question, do the Utral Aymokria (sorry, haven't set up for na'vi typing just yet) always grow in groves or can they grow in single specimens?

I know just enough about treeology (just go with it) to know that some trees drop seeds, some drop seeds via bird poop, and some, like the ash(?) spread roots out and "poof" 20-40 feet away, up springs another one! The ToV's may grow this way, which would kind of make sense, if they are like "nerve endings" or similar to river deltas (where a river fractures out and meets the sea).

If that makes no sense, or is at all confusing to you, here is an antidote to distract you from my complete lack of knowledge on anything. Yes, I brought pictures of my daughter at school. She is soooo cute, with her little play friends!

[bagget00]

How do weeping willows travel. They may have used that for Avatar tree of voices reference.

[kintìomum]

I got the impression that the "leaves" of the ToVs are looking like very neatly folded atokirina.
A bit like the way jellyfish reproduce.
That would leave the ToVs a relatively large area to reproduce since the atokirina seem to be travelling almost everywhere (the one thing that is in every wood-scene of the movie is insects).

[Panzerfaust]

The really interesting thing about the Tree of Voices was that, despite supposedly being an important religious prayer site, Jake and Neytiri were the only ones there.

(okay okay obvious plot device but it seemed silly to me)

[Kaltxì Palulukan!]

The really interesting thing about the Tree of Voices was that, despite supposedly being an important religious prayer site, Jake and Neytiri were the only ones there.

Wow. You just made me really angry.

You are 100 thousand percent correct! A people such as the Na'vi should have tribe members there ALL THE TIME, and I am not sure what the by-laws are regarding having sex in the middle of the very place where people (Na'vi) in NEED would have to go to get a miracle.

"Um, excuse me, my WIFE is dying from a Palulukan attack."

(J&N) "Um... yeah, that's great. um... give us five--oh yeah, that's the spot--make that ten more minutes."

How rude is that?  

In a communal society, consideration is the law. It is the law above all others. You cannot be rude, or a jerk and expect the tribe to hold together. Having sex is great, and doing it in front of mom (well mom, and her mom, and her mom, and her mom's mom's mom...) is all kinds of kinky, but really. How about a corner of the grove--not the very center of it. And yes--why were there no Na'vis there? I gave you a cookie for being the first one to bring up this essential point. The ToV grove is third on the list of "most important places to  the Omatikaya. they "live" at one of the other two, and the ToS looked pretty lonely too. Even if the ToS were "sacred" and not to be visited lightly, the ToV grove had to be a popular destination. Imagine everything you could learn from your ancestors. "They Live" she said to (Av)Jake. I'll bet they have a lot of valuable information to share.

[Tsu'roen]

The really interesting thing about the Tree of Voices was that, despite supposedly being an important religious prayer site, Jake and Neytiri were the only ones there.

(okay okay obvious plot device but it seemed silly to me)

Well, don't forget that it's in the middle of the night where every decent Na'vi is sleeping in his hammock. And I doubt that the Na'vi have a significant nightlife culture. So it seems not too strange to me that they are alone there at that time.

She said, "We call these trees Utral Aymokriyä, The tree of voices."

I'm absolutely sure Neytiri says "we call these trees Utraya Mokri - the Tree of Voices"
She most definitely does NOT say "Utral Aymokriyä" - that seems to be another error in the ASG!
"Utraya Mokri" is also what's in the script. (page 89)

As for the "Tree of Voices" vs. " Trees of Voices" - English isn't Neytiri's native language so she is allowed to make mistakes  

[Tsa'räni]

We've been given no real indication as to how often the Omatikaya visit places like the Tree of Voices or the Tree of Souls.  Churches are central to many people's lives, yet a good number of those people are only seen at them on Sundays.  Being a significant part of their lives doesn't necessarily translate to people being there all the time.  And as Tsu'roen pointed out, it was in the middle of the night (after what I'd think was a big celebration).  I don't see it as being an issue.

[magne]

We've been given no real indication as to how often the Omatikaya visit places like the Tree of Voices or the Tree of Souls.  Churches are central to many people's lives, yet a good number of those people are only seen at them on Sundays.  Being a significant part of their lives doesn't necessarily translate to people being there all the time.  And as Tsu'roen pointed out, it was in the middle of the night (after what I'd think was a big celebration).  I don't see it as being an issue.

Yes and its multiple trees of voices, they might select one who was not the closest to the home tree to be alone. And we does not know how visited they are.

Tree of souls is actually stranger, if it's a holy place for lots of tribes or even a uniquely powerful place on the planet I would assume you would have many pilgrims where all the time. It might even a small city with a tribe living where and more pilgrims who visited from a day to many months. Humans first cities are earlier than farming and probably served as a combination of religious places and trade.

[Tsu'roen]

Yes, I would at least expect something like a Tsahik on duty and for sure a guard to keep nosy sawtute away ...

[Kesìltsamsiyu]

Quote from: Panzerfaust on February 26, 2010, 10:50:35 PM
The really interesting thing about the Tree of Voices was that, despite supposedly being an important religious prayer site, Jake and Neytiri were the only ones there.


Wow. You just made me really angry.

You are 100 thousand percent correct! A people such as the Na'vi should have tribe members there ALL THE TIME, and I am not sure what the by-laws are regarding having sex in the middle of the very place where people (Na'vi) in NEED would have to go to get a miracle.

"Um, excuse me, my WIFE is dying from a Palulukan attack."

(J&N) "Um... yeah, that's great. um... give us five--oh yeah, that's the spot--make that ten more minutes."

How rude is that? 

In a communal society, consideration is the law. It is the law above all others. You cannot be rude, or a jerk and expect the tribe to hold together. Having sex is great, and doing it in front of mom (well mom, and her mom, and her mom, and her mom's mom's mom...) is all kinds of kinky, but really. How about a corner of the grove--not the very center of it. And yes--why were there no Na'vis there? I gave you a cookie for being the first one to bring up this essential point. The ToV grove is third on the list of "most important places to  the Omatikaya. they "live" at one of the other two, and the ToS looked pretty lonely too. Even if the ToS were "sacred" and not to be visited lightly, the ToV grove had to be a popular destination. Imagine everything you could learn from your ancestors. "They Live" she said to (Av)Jake. I'll bet they have a lot of valuable information to share.

I kind of figured that it was the opposite. It's sacred ground, it seemed to me like it would be the sort of place that people wouldn't be allowed on (or just wouldn't go to) except for special occasions.

Okay, so this is a minor point, but there were, it looked like 8-12 "Trees of Voices" (we always seem to say "Tree" as in "one" around here). It was obviously a grove, but that is not the point. This is:

My question is, for anyone who will be seeing Avatar this week: I thought I heard Neytiri say "We call them Utral Aymokriyä but then starts talking about ONE tree, the tree they are at. I want to capture that line (in my head, not "illegally") and I am wondering if anyone else caught that, or will catch it. I swear I am bringing a pen and notepad the next few times I see this movie.

I think they're all part of the same tree, it just has runners and such that go underground. On earth, there's huge areas of trees that are really the same tree, just roots sprouting new trunks from underground, so it really depends on how you define "tree," if you mean it as a single organism, or as a single object sticking out of the ground. It seems like either way would work. When it comes to semantics, there's very rarely only one correct answer.

[Tsu'roen]

Okay, so this is a minor point, but there were, it looked like 8-12 "Trees of Voices" (we always seem to say "Tree" as in "one" around here). It was obviously a grove, but that is not the point. This is:

My question is, for anyone who will be seeing Avatar this week: I thought I heard Neytiri say "We call them Utral Aymokriyä but then starts talking about ONE tree, the tree they are at. I want to capture that line (in my head, not "illegally") and I am wondering if anyone else caught that, or will catch it. I swear I am bringing a pen and notepad the next few times I see this movie.

I think they're all part of the same tree, it just has runners and such that go underground. On earth, there's huge areas of trees that are really the same tree, just roots sprouting new trunks from underground, so it really depends on how you define "tree," if you mean it as a single organism, or as a single object sticking out of the ground. It seems like either way would work. When it comes to semantics, there's very rarely only one correct answer.

Yes, poplar forests are usually all clones that come from runners of the same root system but they are still independent (though genetically identical) trees and not a single one. The same is for pretty much all plants that follow this strategy.

[Technowraith]

The really interesting thing about the Tree of Voices was that, despite supposedly being an important religious prayer site, Jake and Neytiri were the only ones there.

Wow. You just made me really angry.

You are 100 thousand percent correct! A people such as the Na'vi should have tribe members there ALL THE TIME, and I am not sure what the by-laws are regarding having sex in the middle of the very place where people (Na'vi) in NEED would have to go to get a miracle.

"Um, excuse me, my WIFE is dying from a Palulukan attack."

(J&N) "Um... yeah, that's great. um... give us five--oh yeah, that's the spot--make that ten more minutes."

How rude is that?  

In a communal society, consideration is the law. It is the law above all others. You cannot be rude, or a jerk and expect the tribe to hold together. Having sex is great, and doing it in front of mom (well mom, and her mom, and her mom, and her mom's mom's mom...) is all kinds of kinky, but really. How about a corner of the grove--not the very center of it. And yes--why were there no Na'vis there? I gave you a cookie for being the first one to bring up this essential point. The ToV grove is third on the list of "most important places to  the Omatikaya. they "live" at one of the other two, and the ToS looked pretty lonely too. Even if the ToS were "sacred" and not to be visited lightly, the ToV grove had to be a popular destination. Imagine everything you could learn from your ancestors. "They Live" she said to (Av)Jake. I'll bet they have a lot of valuable information to share.

In the 67 times i've seen Avatar, this has bugged me a bit. Now also recall that Grace said (during an argument with Selfrige and Quaritch) "At sites like the one you just destroyed." So that begs to conclude that there are multople sites where there are ToV's. Neytiri may have taken Jake to a lesser known or less used site (which just happened to be in the path of the bulldozers). But i do agree that there should be more "foot traffic" at the ToV sites regardless.

[Kaltxì Palulukan!]

I kind of figured that it was the opposite. It's sacred ground, it seemed to me like it would be the sort of place that people wouldn't be allowed on (or just wouldn't go to) except for special occasions.

Whoah! Whoah, let's put this thing in reverse here a moment!

Okay . . . on Earth, that is a very real sentiment--and makes all kinds of sense. But please take a moment an ponder this. The Na'vi are not a bunch of beer-chugging tree-peeing-on lumberjack miscreants who can't be trusted not to graffiti their own neighborhoods. Their version of sacred is not "God is (always) angry at us." Their religious philosophy has no guilt built into it that every tute must accept at birth.

Sacred to them has a different connotation than "we had better protect this place from some dumb punk rocker, or other 'vandal' who will carve his name into it." Sacred means refuge, sanctuary, a place "to come and have prayers heard, and sometimes answered," or whatever Neytiri said. This is a point central to me as a real-life spiritual counselor, because the Na'vi espouse "oneness with," which has (in America at least) been reserved for religious prophets, icons and new agers. The na'vi have no artificial separation, no "fall from grace" that castigates the common wo/man for being some kind of impure vessel, just by being born. They are emanations of Eywa ("borrowed energy" and they return to Eywa). Anyone who tried to keep them away from the ToS or the ToV would be considered a heretic, or a tyrant. Their mindset is just "different" from Terran-based bipedal sentient creatures.

Your point is valid on Earth, especially in Western traditions, where we HAVE to keep people away from art. Look at many of the greatest pieces of art n history, destroyed by religious fanatics obsessed with sex-guilt. This doesn't even begin to look at the common vandal, thief, and occasional workaday sociopath one encounters in the general populace.

Anyway, let's be careful how we apply Earth-based limitations of psychological evolution on our blue-hued friends.

[Tsa'räni]

While I agree they wouldn't actively keep Na'vi from going there, it's entirely possible their culture has evolved where it's not common for Na'vi to go there except on special occasions.  There doesn't need to be any forcing involved with it if that's just how the Na'vi are.

[kintìomum]

I guess that a society strongly based on the clan and the connection between the respective members simply has a lot of rising questions answered by the olo'tute.
When you are unsure wether it's a good idea to poke that funny colored crawler before you or need help finishing these last tricky knots at your work on the loom you don't go and ask the elders that returned into Eywa's embrace for advice - your clanfolk is there to help you.
Only serious questions like you being unsure of strange dreams that you don't dare tell the Tsa'hik about would make you visit the elders for advice.

[Kesìltsamsiyu]

I kind of figured that it was the opposite. It's sacred ground, it seemed to me like it would be the sort of place that people wouldn't be allowed on (or just wouldn't go to) except for special occasions.

Whoah! Whoah, let's put this thing in reverse here a moment!

Okay . . . on Earth, that is a very real sentiment--and makes all kinds of sense. But please take a moment an ponder this. The Na'vi are not a bunch of beer-chugging tree-peeing-on lumberjack miscreants who can't be trusted not to graffiti their own neighborhoods. Their version of sacred is not "God is (always) angry at us." Their religious philosophy has no guilt built into it that every tute must accept at birth.

Sacred to them has a different connotation than "we had better protect this place from some dumb punk rocker, or other 'vandal' who will carve his name into it." Sacred means refuge, sanctuary, a place "to come and have prayers heard, and sometimes answered," or whatever Neytiri said. This is a point central to me as a real-life spiritual counselor, because the Na'vi espouse "oneness with," which has (in America at least) been reserved for religious prophets, icons and new agers. The na'vi have no artificial separation, no "fall from grace" that castigates the common wo/man for being some kind of impure vessel, just by being born. They are emanations of Eywa ("borrowed energy" and they return to Eywa). Anyone who tried to keep them away from the ToS or the ToV would be considered a heretic, or a tyrant. Their mindset is just "different" from Terran-based bipedal sentient creatures.

Your point is valid on Earth, especially in Western traditions, where we HAVE to keep people away from art. Look at many of the greatest pieces of art n history, destroyed by religious fanatics obsessed with sex-guilt. This doesn't even begin to look at the common vandal, thief, and occasional workaday sociopath one encounters in the general populace.

Anyway, let's be careful how we apply Earth-based limitations of psychological evolution on our blue-hued friends.

Your last sentence works just as well against you as it does against me

The whole "Sex should be done in private" seems to be a very terran idea. Maybe there were other people there, just not on the camera. The Tree(s) of voices covered a relatively large area, and it was dark, so it would have been possible. In a society based on oneness with the forest, prayers could be a rare thing. Constantly wanting things from higher powers strikes me as a human thing to do. I don't think we know enough about na'vi culture to conclusively call the (presumed) lack of others at the Tree of Voices a plot hole.