Tsu'Tey *spoiler*

Started by Sa'vitri, December 28, 2009, 09:01:26 PM

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Hufwe Makto

I'm not basing anything on probability, but crazy s*** has happened before so its not entirely impossible  :)

tute nuereime

crazy s*** indeed. that would probably be its own avatar movie. "Tsu'Tey and the crazy s*** involved getting him back to the clan"
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Robert Nantangä Tirea

Quote from: tute nuereime on January 02, 2010, 01:10:52 AM
Quote from: stingray56 on January 01, 2010, 10:50:38 PM
it looks like he got shot three times in the chest by what looked like a .50 cal then fell about a thousand feet (probably not accurate). it is possible he survived. due to the denser atmosphere on Pandora and the lower gravity, the terminal velocity would be lower. then if he was lucky enough to miss all the blades of the scorpions and land on some giant soft mushroom like Jake did after he failed at his attempt to follow Neytiri down the fern leaves. maybe one of the other banshee riders spotted him and caught him on the way down and just brought him back to their clan after the battle because the driver did not know where he was from because Tsu'tey fell unconcious...
let me get this straight you believe that in the time that he is falling someone was looking at just the right place to see him through the chaos of the battle and was able to dive after him, catch him all without crashing into the trees, getting shot, and not going into a unrecoverable fall. and considering that the gravity is less how long do you think it would take for him the hit the trees?

The Activist's Guide lists Atmospheric Density as 1.2 times that of Earth's, and gravity as 80%.

If we assume:
(1) the Na'vi have roughly 2x the body mass of humans, or 350 lbs.
(2) Average cross-sectional area of a rotating falling body spends equal time falling with a frontal and sidal profile. Assuming 9 foot hieght and average 2 foot width and 1 foot depth that's a (9*2 + 9)/2 = 13.5 ft^2 profile.
(3) average drag coeficient of 0.7
(4) atmospheric density of 0.002844 slugs per cubic foot.

Tsu'tey's terminal velocity would be ~161 ft per second. Discounting air desnity for the moment, Earth acceleration under freefall is 32 ft/s^2 thus pandoran freefall would be 25.6 ft/s^2. By the equation sqrt(2*V / A ) = T, the time it would take tsu'tey to reach maximum velocity is 3.55 seconds. Thus as we can see from the movie he will have reached 161 ft per second freefall before he hits tree canopy. I'm having trouble finding information on the chance of survival from an impact under this speed. However, wikipedia tells us that some people have survived insane falls at thousands of feet, so anything is possible (of course, we aren't factoring the 3 .50 cal shots to the chest. that'll ruin your day.)

Sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_fall
http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/termv.html

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Hufwe Makto

i bet they would hurt like a b**** but do less damage than expected if you're 10 ft tall and have carbon fiber reinforced bones. also we're not taking into account the density of na'vi flesh, and the reduced speed of the bullets muzzle velocity due to denser atmospheres. feel free to do the math on that too. farmiliar with anything higher level than alg 2...

Lehrrap Uniltìranyu

It depends on where he got hit. One round cleanly hit him around the heart area. If that cut though something major, he is DEAD, I don't care how intune with the world around you you are. A bullet though your heart is a bullet though your heart. You're going to die, be it upon impact, or a few moments after, or till you bleed out or whatever, unless you're a president or you have immediet medical attention, then you're going to die, soon.



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Hufwe Makto

well we're not entirely sure on their biological anatomy. i.e. we don't know if that's where their heart is. or if they have any skeletal plates there. besides that's right where the rib cage connects and there is a lot of bone and cartilage there. now taking into account that their bones are much stronger that human bones, it is possible for the bullet to have lodged itself into the bones/cartilage before it got to the heart. so the damage might have been enough to knock him out not kill him. and that's what we see in the movie, an unconscious Tsu'Tey falling to his possible doom. but its up to Cameron to decide.

Doolio

but he was falling pretty calmly, he was either dead, or unconscious, or dying and not having enough energy to move a finger...

also, his story in the movie is a full circle, he played his role as a supporting act, it would be strange if he did not die. movie-wise, he would not fit in afterwards. he is not leader anymore, he lost the woman he loved. what would he do in the sequel, get over with? continue to be a nuissance to jake? (this is not an option since he accepted jake in the end and put himself under his command) his character served as a counter-character for jake and to support the development of jake's and neytiri's relation, etc, etc.

i want to say that i think we shouldn't focus so much on hypotethical possibilities physics-wise or biology-wise, but more scenario and movie-wise.
...taj rad...

Txon Tompa

still feel bad for him
he lost fis woman
his dad
his clan
and then he gets shot and falls 1000 feet

tsk tsk

i admire how much of a man he was through all this tho
of corse he got pissed at jake.. but he got over it

go tsutey! ;D
oel ngati kameie

bagget00

I think he might be the real hero of this story. Jake was just in the right place at the right time by falling over the waterfall.
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Quote from: Robert Nantangä Tirea on January 02, 2010, 02:02:50 AM

The Activist's Guide lists Atmospheric Density as 1.2 times that of Earth's, and gravity as 80%.

If we assume:
(1) the Na'vi have roughly 2x the body mass of humans, or 350 lbs.
(2) Average cross-sectional area of a rotating falling body spends equal time falling with a frontal and sidal profile. Assuming 9 foot hieght and average 2 foot width and 1 foot depth that's a (9*2 + 9)/2 = 13.5 ft^2 profile.
(3) average drag coeficient of 0.7
(4) atmospheric density of 0.002844 slugs per cubic foot.

Tsu'tey's terminal velocity would be ~161 ft per second. Discounting air desnity for the moment, Earth acceleration under freefall is 32 ft/s^2 thus pandoran freefall would be 25.6 ft/s^2. By the equation sqrt(2*V / A ) = T, the time it would take tsu'tey to reach maximum velocity is 3.55 seconds. Thus as we can see from the movie he will have reached 161 ft per second freefall before he hits tree canopy. I'm having trouble finding information on the chance of survival from an impact under this speed. However, wikipedia tells us that some people have survived insane falls at thousands of feet, so anything is possible (of course, we aren't factoring the 3 .50 cal shots to the chest. that'll ruin your day.)

Sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_fall
http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/termv.html

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Quote from: Robert Nantangä Tirea on January 02, 2010, 02:02:50 AM
Discounting air desnity for the moment, Earth acceleration under freefall is 32 ft/s^2 thus pandoran freefall would be 25.6 ft/s^2. By the equation sqrt(2*V / A ) = T, the time it would take tsu'tey to reach maximum velocity is 3.55 seconds.

I disagree with a few of your other assumptions but not as much as this one. The same Wikipedia page you cited gives a formula which can be rearranged as

v(t) / v_{term} = tanh(t \sqrt{\frac{\rho C_D A g}{2m}})
(using LateX notation since I don't see true equation support).

Since sqrt(0.8 * 1.2) is about 0.98 we can pretty much take the times from the Wikipedia page on terminal velocity:

Quotea speed of 50% of terminal velocity is reached after only about 3 seconds, while it takes 8 seconds to reach 90%, 15 seconds to reach 99% and so on.

As a rough approximation we can say that after 10 seconds he's fallen at an average of 64% of terminal velocity and has reached something close to terminal velocity (about 95%).

(I would also go with a higher mass; lower cross-sectional area, as drag will push him into a head-down position; lower drag coefficient; and arrive at a terminal velocity of about 230m/s or 750 ft/s. Even taking your figures you forgot to take into account the change in gravity, which would give 180 ft/s).
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Hufwe Makto

If this is true and he is falling at 180 fps and lands in water or another soft material he might have survived. With major brain trauma... But I doubt that JC added a twist like that into the movie. What we see is probably what we got. And we saw Tsu'Tey die...