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Offline Tonbogiri

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Hawaiian Location 2
« on: July 28, 2011, 05:16:15 pm »
OKay guys, let's get back into it!

Specific location research right here. Nìmwey flagged this location up for me, so a round of applause! I have contacted the land agent in charge of this particular property, and this is what I have learned so far.

Name/Location:Mauna Kea Ranch, Hawaii
Size: 1076 acres
Current Price: $3,900,000
Other information:
One of the biggest problems we faced in location choice has been immigration, that is the ease with which we can gain legal access to the host country and stay there. Hawaii, being a popular place for migrants seeking to retire or find work, has a very reliable immigration office and cheap soliciters in this area. So in the area of immigration, Hawaii looks good.
Hawaii has been, in most other areas, ideal. While hunting laws are in place, and do restrict hunting of certain animals to certain times of year, they allow us to hunt using traditional means and in turn allow game populations to recover whilst always leaving something available.
One of the problems we have faced from Hawaii, however, was land size. Hawaii is a popular place, no doubt about it - land is often small, and always expensive. This particular location is, in this case, a gem - 1000 acres has been considered as an ideal size for our tribe, and this particular location will allow us a mix of hunter-gatherer and agriculture to sustain ourselves. The price is in fact only a little higher than other similar sized properties we have looked at, and proportionally cheap for its size.

So. I am still waiting on more detailed information regarding plants and animals local to the area from the land agent, and will update this first post with any new information. Personally, I would like this location to be at least in our top three choices.
But what does everybody else think? Bearing in mind that once we have decided on location, we can really kick this thing off.

<UPDATE>
Elevation above sea level on the property ranges from 2900 feet to 4200 feet. No connection to electric grid, requires either solar power or turbines for electricity.
Water sources include rainfall catchment, but also from resevoirs on the sellers adjacent 9000 acre property.
Approximately half of the property is covered by old forest, mainly Ohia and Koa trees. The ohia trees have historically been used for construction and weapons, while the Koa tree is conserved and should be left alone unless we have no choice at all. Koa trees sometimes used for wood finish in Stratocaster guitars!
« Last Edit: July 29, 2011, 06:19:30 pm by Tonbogiri »


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Offline Tsteu'itan

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Re: Hawaiian Location 2
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2011, 08:53:43 pm »
I've always thought Hawaii would be a beautiful place for the group to settle, and with the tourism and immigration, it would make it easier for people to come visit, join, or even simply learn about the community.  :)

Offline Nìmwey

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Re: Hawaiian Location 2
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2011, 09:00:57 am »
Here we have lots of info about Hawaiian life: http://www.to-hawaii.com/faq.php
And just a little extra, a community I found months ago that live there: http://www.healthfulessentials.com/rawcommunity/Primal_Community/Home.html

The downsides (some of them probably only for me personally) are the natural disasters and that several of the animals I love are illegal to keep there in order to protect the ecosystem, such as snakes and several parrot species. :(

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Re: Hawaiian Location 2
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2011, 11:09:54 am »

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Re: Hawaiian Location 2
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2011, 12:46:36 pm »
You can also chat with me again as needed.
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Offline Tonbogiri

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Re: Hawaiian Location 2
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2011, 06:09:01 pm »
that place is $3.7 million, not $3.9 million

The two sources are owned by the same land owner. As I understand it, property buys are often at some sort of "haggling" - the end price will be between 3.7 and 3.9 million. Better to aim for the larger, then we can have spare!

For those who don;t know, ExLibrisMortis here is a Hawaii expert. He should be, of course - he lives there! We will be asking some questions of you in the future...

Also, more info updated in the first post!


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Offline Tsanten Eywa 'eveng

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Re: Hawaiian Location 2
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2011, 06:42:41 pm »
no electric grid? Is it a good idea to set up a windmill? It is probably enough wind, when it is so high over sea level

Offline Tonbogiri

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Re: Hawaiian Location 2
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2011, 05:13:08 pm »
By combining the solar and wind power, there should be enough electricity. Other possibilities, such as biogas, do exist as well - rest assured, we can get our power!

I realise our numbers are not great right now, but I feel like this location is a really great find. I wish to now start applying the dry run plan we decided on a few months back to this location, and to start working out budget. This could be our location problem over!

But let's not get excited. There is a small chance that the property in question could be sold before we are ready to buy it - in which case, we will require a back up. I therefore ask for volunteers to keep researching locations in an attempt to find a backup location.


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Offline Tsanten Eywa 'eveng

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Re: Hawaiian Location 2
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2011, 05:19:51 pm »
our numbers? are you meaning our members? are we not enough members? Is it that, or something else?

Offline Nìmwey

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Re: Hawaiian Location 2
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2011, 06:47:05 pm »
I'd think that's what he means, yes. Project Tribal is quite disorganized (and have been for a while), but even though things are finally happening, there are not many active/committed members. A handful, if even that.
BTW, I searched "Island for sale Hawaii" (I just luv islands even though they are a bit unconventional ::)), and found this: http://www.hawaiis.com/

It's not islands, it's "just" Hawaii Real Estate, but anyway. Another one of those sites where you can't choose the land size when searching, but oh well... and you need to be registered to take a closer look.

And another site here: http://www.hawaiimoves.com/PropertySearch.aspx

Offline Nìmwey

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Re: Hawaiian Location 2
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2011, 06:52:53 am »
"If you want to see a real, active volcano, black-sand beaches and enjoy plenty of open space, go to the Big Island of Hawaii. If you dream for a peaceful vacation, surrounded by tropical beauty, empty white-sand beaches, gardens and evergreen nature, pick Kauai. If you’d like to see the largest dormant volcano in the world, Maui is your spot. If you want to unwind completely, enjoy a lot of peace and quiet without many other people around, then you might like Molokai or Lanai."
Kauai, Molokai and Lanai sounds nice to me then. ;)
Oahu is the most popular island, and because of that, the population density is 567 per square kilometer.
In comparison, that of the big island is only 14, Kauai 41, Molokai 11 and Lanai 9.
But then keep in mind that places with very low population density - there is a reason for that, often that the country/island consists mainly of protected land where no human is allowed to live.

Oh well, one upside of Hawaii is that there are no (native) snakes whatsoever.
(But some "pet" snakes have escaped, that's why you can't keep them there any longer.)
But there are other dangerous critters: http://www.aloha.com/~lifeguards/critters.html

Now, about diseases.
Leptospirosis - "Nearly half of all the cases of leptospirosis detected in the United States each year come from Hawaii."
"It is caused by bacteria of the genus Leptospira.  Symptoms of leptospirosis include high fever, severe headache, chills, muscle aches, and vomiting, and may include jaundice (yellow skin and eyes), red eyes, abdominal pain, diarrhea, or a rash. If the disease is not treated, the patient could develop kidney damage, meningitis (inflammation of the membrane around the brain and spinal cord), liver failure, and respiratory distress, however, it is rare that death occurs."
"Humans become infected through contact with water, food, or soil containing urine from infected animals.  It is easily treatable with antibiotics.  The illness lasts from a few days to 3 weeks or longer, however without treatment, recovery may take several months.  The disease is not known to be spread from person to person."


Shigellosis - "The Shigella bacteria is spread from person to person through stools, soiled fingers or contaminated food and water. Symptoms might include diarrhea, fever and stomach cramps, which usually resolve within a week or so."

Yersiniosis - "This bacterium tends to attack children more frequently than adults and is found in untreated water, shellfish and some dairy products. Symptoms include fever, diarrhea and acute stomach pain. This is the rarest type of waterborne illness in Hawaii."

Cryptosporidiosis - "Caused by a parasite that can live in the intestines of animals and humans, this illness is characterized by diarrhea and cramping. If left untreated, cryptosporidiosis can cause severe illness and even death."

Giardiasis - "This mild intestinal illness is caused by a parasite that can be passed from animals to humans through feces or through contaminated water or food. Symptoms include diarrhea, gas, cramps, fatigue and weight loss, which may last up to three weeks."

And that was only the waterborne diseases - I have a hard time finding out whether there are more than those.

Then I'm wondering about building/construction laws - since that was an issue with New Zealand, and I haven't looked it up in any countries so far.

Offline 'Itan Atxur

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Re: Hawaiian Location 2
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2011, 05:15:19 pm »
Wow.

Please excuse me. I'm slightly shell shocked at the moment. The past week has been, um, rather bad for me. This... is good news!

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Offline Tsanten Eywa 'eveng

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Re: Hawaiian Location 2
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2011, 08:14:22 pm »
one thing we need to observe here, is Mauna Kea volcano
the last eruption was 4.600 years ago
the volcano is expected to erupt again

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauna_Kea#Future_activity

but looking away from that theme, Mauna Kea Ranch looking like a really good place :D :D :D


Offline Nìmwey

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Re: Hawaiian Location 2
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2011, 05:01:07 am »
I am just hesitant about how the way it looks from the pictures - 48 pics and only grass with a few trees here and there. No forest, no streams...?
If we/you go for Hawaii, then I think it is time to start thinking about what we want with the land, I mean, what are requested or desirable traits of the land. For example; a forest is something we must have, a waterfall would be nice but is not a must-have, a large body of water is needed, etc.

And funding. Many topics are kind of pointless until we have a location (at least a country) set, but one topic that is always important and never pointless is funding.

Offline Tonbogiri

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Re: Hawaiian Location 2
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2011, 08:40:13 am »
Nìmwey, I had a word with the land agent in regards to the apparent lack of vegetation. Apparently, approximately half of the property is covered by old forest. Plus, check out the first post again - it is updated with extra info about the location!

Perhaps I should just paste it here:

<UPDATE>
Elevation above sea level on the property ranges from 2900 feet to 4200 feet. No connection to electric grid, requires either solar power or turbines for electricity.
Water sources include rainfall catchment, but also from resevoirs on the sellers adjacent 9000 acre property.
Approximately half of the property is covered by old forest, mainly Ohia and Koa trees. The ohia trees have historically been used for construction and weapons, while the Koa tree is conserved and should be left alone unless we have no choice at all. Koa trees sometimes used for wood finish in Stratocaster guitars!

 
Plus, I have had confirmation on the hunting opportunites and the potential for small-scale agriculture. I have also had a word about the volcano - apparently, wehen we purchase the property, we will have to take out insurance for natural disaster. This would mean that we would be made at least financially secure if for whatever reason our land became inhospitable.

Let's not go back to square one here. We already know what the main things we need are going to be - in basic terms, a food source, a water source, a source of building material, and electricity.
Foodwise, not only are there naturally occurring plant foods on the site, but also (and I quote) "EXTREMELY" plentiful supplies of wild game. The water is freely available, and it is possible to get electricity from renewable sources. The Ohia trees have been used for centuries by native peoples to build with, so we should be able to do the same!

IN terms of budget, Nìmwey, fear not - new thread started right here: http://forum.learnnavi.org/official-tribe-matters/funding-and-budget/

Let's stay optimistic!


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Offline Tsanten Eywa 'eveng

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Re: Hawaiian Location 2
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2011, 11:19:02 am »
If the volcano on Big Island will erupt, the observatory there will notice it first, and they will proably evaquate, if the eruption is very serious

Offline Tonbogiri

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Re: Hawaiian Location 2
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2011, 05:05:26 pm »
(just putting the update onto the second page - easy to miss it otherwise!)

Nìmwey, I had a word with the land agent in regards to the apparent lack of vegetation. Apparently, approximately half of the property is covered by old forest. Plus, check out the first post again - it is updated with extra info about the location!

Perhaps I should just paste it here:

<UPDATE>
Elevation above sea level on the property ranges from 2900 feet to 4200 feet. No connection to electric grid, requires either solar power or turbines for electricity.
Water sources include rainfall catchment, but also from resevoirs on the sellers adjacent 9000 acre property.
Approximately half of the property is covered by old forest, mainly Ohia and Koa trees. The ohia trees have historically been used for construction and weapons, while the Koa tree is conserved and should be left alone unless we have no choice at all. Koa trees sometimes used for wood finish in Stratocaster guitars!

   
Plus, I have had confirmation on the hunting opportunites and the potential for small-scale agriculture. I have also had a word about the volcano - apparently, wehen we purchase the property, we will have to take out insurance for natural disaster. This would mean that we would be made at least financially secure if for whatever reason our land became inhospitable.

Let's not go back to square one here. We already know what the main things we need are going to be - in basic terms, a food source, a water source, a source of building material, and electricity.
Foodwise, not only are there naturally occurring plant foods on the site, but also (and I quote) "EXTREMELY" plentiful supplies of wild game. The water is freely available, and it is possible to get electricity from renewable sources. The Ohia trees have been used for centuries by native peoples to build with, so we should be able to do the same!

IN terms of budget, Nìmwey, fear not - new thread started right here:http://forum.learnnavi.org/official-tribe-matters/funding-and-budget/] [url]http://forum.learnnavi.org/official-tribe-matters/funding-and-budget/[/url]

Let's stay optimistic!


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Offline Tsanten Eywa 'eveng

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Re: Hawaiian Location 2
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2011, 05:32:32 pm »
this is my route to Hawaii, If it will be this place

Offline Txura Rolyu

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Re: Hawaiian Location 2
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2011, 03:21:16 pm »
Glad to hear that the tribe is finally coming across a place to stay. I live in CA and have always wanted to go to Hawaii. Perhaps if we get the place in time I will still be able to come down and help build and hunt and live with you all for a summer. Would absolutely love it.  :D

Keep me updated :) I like to hear when important things are happening.

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Offline Tonbogiri

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Re: Hawaiian Location 2
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2011, 06:15:55 pm »
Nice to hear that, Txura!

Certainly, we shall keep you in the loop - now that location is sorted, we can finally get started on other important aspects of the tribe!


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