Author Topic: Location idea : French Guiana  (Read 5997 times)

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Offline Tsmuktengan

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Location idea : French Guiana
« on: September 14, 2011, 07:17:06 pm »
Hello!

I have been monitoring these topics since some time now.

A few days ago, while reading the topics about the suggested locations, it came to my mind one potential land did not come in anyone's mind apparently. I thought you would be interested. I am suggesting here the French Guiana territories.

Quote from: Wikipedia
French Guiana (French: Guyane française, French pronunciation: [ɡɥijan fʁɑ̃sɛz]; officially just Guyane) is an overseas region of France, consisting of a single overseas department located on the northern Atlantic coast of South America. It has borders with two nations, Brazil to the east and south, and Suriname to the west. Its 83,534 km² have a very low population density of less than three inhabitants per km², with almost half of its 229,000 people in 2009 living in the urban area of Cayenne, its capital.

More interesting information : https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/French_Guiana

The Amazon Rainforest covers almost all parts of this territory, with a very diverse and abundant vegetation and fauna. This part of the Amazon rainforest is among the most protected areas of the continent, with established natural reserves, numerous ecological and scientific projects and studies, and several native tribes populating various areas of land they own. Guiana has the particularity of not having very much mountains. It however has a lot of hills of various sizes and a lot of rivers. There are at least 5 mountains there.  

I have quickly searched Google on several websites about the French Amazonia, and it seems to be very easy to access, pretty much safe and with several 'known' areas that are beautiful. Guiana is known by French people to be home of several tours orientated towards biodiversity and life in the forest. The local nature seems to be appropriate for a living while being one of the best preserved natural land remaining in our world. There are some French people from the cities that had the project to give up their city life to live in the forest. There are apparently many possibilities, include buying a piece of land (respecting the locally enforced  environmental laws, shouldn't be difficult though) and finding a job related to the forest to save some money. Public infrastructures, including health services should be as good as in France as well.

There may be some downsides though. Aside the fact the currency is the euro, Guiana is heavily dependent on France, meaning that products are often imported from there, increasing the cost of life. Also, the military forces monitor what is happening in the forest to track illegal gold miners and potentials traffics between Brazil and Surinam. Be sure to know what legal procedures you have to complete to get permission to stay inside the forest for long periods and avoid little bad surprises and delays.

I would personally like to go there one day, having already been several times to Brazil. I also though the places there could be less generally crowded than Hawaii, that one being much more known and touristic. This is why I suggest this to you, even though I do not know much more.

Here are nice photographies I have been able to search randomly on the web about Amazon rainforest in Guiana. I hope this can help you or, at least, was interesting.  :)


NB : Despite being attracted and interested in this project, I sadly cannot join in at all, except if such a thing can be done on a very short period of time (this is what we manage to do sometimes in France). But keep it up! I really find this great and think this can be a great experience!


Offline Tonbogiri

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Re: Location idea : French Guiana
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2011, 01:06:46 pm »
Our thanks, Tsmuktengan!

The French Guiana territories - I was aware of their general existence, but had never considered an investigation into them as a feasible location. Time to check up on available land properties!


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Offline Tsmuktengan

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Re: Location idea : French Guiana
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2011, 10:45:18 am »
I would be interested what are your queries to know how are the lands over there.

Just ask if I can be of any help. I'd be delighted to help to this project that requires both time and a lot of organization.

It seems activity has gone a little lower. Don't get discouraged by time, this is a fabulous experience I would like to live if I am able to.  :)
« Last Edit: September 17, 2011, 11:08:22 am by Tsmuktengan »


Offline Tsanten Eywa 'eveng

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Re: Location idea : French Guiana
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2011, 03:14:20 pm »
does somebody know the immigration law for France?

Offline Tsmuktengan

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Re: Location idea : French Guiana
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2011, 04:57:42 pm »
does somebody know the immigration law for France?

This page should partly answer your question : Formalities - Tourisme Guyane

For people outside the European Union, the legal info is there (following what is said on the above link) : Information for foreign nationals with ordinary passports - France Diplomacie
« Last Edit: September 17, 2011, 05:22:16 pm by Tsmuktengan »


Offline Tsanten Eywa 'eveng

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Re: Location idea : French Guiana
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2011, 05:54:19 pm »
does somebody know the immigration law for France?

This page should partly answer your question : Formalities - Tourisme Guyane

For people outside the European Union, the legal info is there (following what is said on the above link) : Information for foreign nationals with ordinary passports - France Diplomacie

Since French Guiana is in South-America is it part of France, and have the French Guiana the same immigration law as France?

Offline Tsmuktengan

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Re: Location idea : French Guiana
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2011, 07:06:13 pm »
Yes. It is fully administrated by the French and European authorities, and does not have any autonomy (except that the people governing this land are in majority locals). To make it simple, it is considered as a French region or "département" just like Britany or Normandy.

This simplifies the immigration formalities, at least for people coming from the EU, and not a lot more complicated for people outside the EU (ie for US citizens).


Offline Nìmwey

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Re: Location idea : French Guiana
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2011, 09:55:01 am »
It looks pretty, and it is one of - if not the only - location in South America I haven't really looked up, probably because I'm personally mostly aiming for spanish and english-speaking countries.
Since it is not its own country, I can't find health statistics in WHO, but you could "guess" it should be pretty similar to Guyana and Suriname.
http://www.who.int/countries/guy/en/
http://www.who.int/countries/sur/en/

The population density is only 2.6 per square kilometer, which is extremely low, and a catch with those countries/locations seem to be low health standards and that most of the country is protected land.
Costa Rica, Panama and Venezuela are examples of countries where they have more or less banned hunting - something worth looking up here as well.

Offline Tsmuktengan

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Re: Location idea : French Guiana
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2011, 01:30:44 pm »
I went to check this part. According to this page, the demographic and health statistics aren't that bad. But I am surprised the WHO website has no precise data on this, outside long unreadable reports in PDFs. Same for CIA World Factbook. Wikipedia seems reliable as they use these sources.

Statistics are from 2006 to 2009 :

Population :
230 500 inhabitants
Population density : 2,3 inhab./km² (climbs to 19 inhab./km² if you only consider the coastal lands)
Natality rate : 31%o (highest of all the French departments, including metropolitan)
Raw mortality rate : 4.88%o (lowest of all the French departments, including metropolitan as well)
Infant mortality rate : 11,76% out of total population
Life expectancy : 73,95 years for men and 80,75 years for women.

Other health notes :

  • I came across some medical association websites talking about water contamination issues in certain areas, caused by mercury used by illegal gold miners. This detail must attract your attention and should be very careful about this when selecting the territory. Considering that these miners may be close to the borders of Suriname, Guiana and Brazil, it shouldn't be everywhere (I hope, I have not yet searched a lot about this, but I believe this is necessary).
  • This department has the highest HIV contamination rate of all the French departments, including metropolitan, with 49 humans affected for 100 000.
  • According to http://www.sante-guyane.org/default.php , mosquitoes should be less (!) annoying than the ones we have in southern France*. However, there are regions that are particularly affected by Malaria. There are preventive treatment to be taken for this and doctors can advise people coming from these lands.
  • "French Guiana is a French department, responding to French and European standards and it has a network of health facilities and health professionals." I know that public and private French medical facilities are very good in metropolitan France (lots of medical specialists inside family).

* ... I already got my left entire arm "eaten" by mosquitos during sleep there. I'm quite surprised to read situation is not worse in Guiana, or may be better. Situation is still totally livable, just may bring slightly inconvenient troubles.  ;D

So health there tend to be of standard level, way better than the former colonies of Guiana and Suriname, or Brazil. There is no comparison possible to Venezuela, Panama or Costa Rica I believe, especially when it comes to forest preservation and land security.
.

I have however other concerns, but that are not tightly linked to French Guiana since I have no idea how to get food in such an environment. It is required to stay healthy and have energy.

About the protected lands : there are natural reserves, but do not cover the entire territory. Native tribes have difficulty claiming their own rights(unclear). This is all I know currently, but I'll try to search about this.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2011, 05:54:48 pm by Tsmuktengan »


Offline Tsmuktengan

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Re: Location idea : French Guiana
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2011, 06:55:47 pm »
I have found an interesting (yet academic) article from this website from the Ecole Normale Supérieure of Lyon. It explains in detail how the forest is inhabited, divided, exploited or preserved, including some historical details.

I encourage you to read it, since it tells quite a lot. Here are the interesting points I have seen :

  • There are enough a lot of Amerindians living in the forest, many of them are still able to live sustainable from the resources of the forest. They however get violent when resources are stolen especially through mining activities.
  • There are a lot of gold miners as well. The French government has a lot of difficulty to play it's role and maintain social peace everywhere, sometimes violent clashes occur between miners and either Amerindians or the Gendarmerie according to some websites.
  • There are specific territories for wood exploitation and natural reserves.
  • The French ground army is present in the forest to maintain order and defend the territory if required. They patrol on the Maroni river and train themselves in the forest. This is a good point, as most other countries in South America and Asia having such a forest do not fully control their land (ie. Brazil or Argentina).
  • There is no law for chasing in the French Guiana department. There is no need for a permission to chase. Everyone is free to chase what he wants, where he wants, when he wants (day and night), with the exception of protected species and natural reserves. Chasing in French Guiana is in majority for auto-consumption.

I still have not seen any clear information about buying pieces of land for a living in the forest. It is possible to buy some land for exploitation to the French authorities, but there won't be an exclusively agricultural activity so that's not exactly what is wanted. I am about to ask this on a triping forum if I cannot find more soon enough.

In complement, here are sounds I found taken from the French Amazon rainforest : Forest sounds - Sciences of life and of the Earth - Guyane Academy
« Last Edit: September 20, 2011, 05:34:56 am by Tsmuktengan »


Offline Tsmuktengan

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Re: Location idea : French Guiana
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2011, 06:29:55 pm »
I have continued research and found other interesting information with a first price index in the canton of Roura.

The Roura lands is down the Kaw mountain and is also host of the Tortue mountains (of a maximum elevation of 462 meters) that has a very rich biodiversity with a wide variety of plants, animals and birds. Like in most parts of the forests, lands usually have poor soils, making it uneasy to grow certain crops, but Roura is among the most productive regions as the bourg of Cacao produces many fruits and vegetables that are then sold in Cayenne, meaning it is possible to grow food there. There are also original fruit trees, some of them produce consumable fruits like one sort of palm tree you find regularly on riverbanks, that are usually 20 meters high, and produce red oval fruits that fall down into rivers and travel slowly before they touch ground to grow into another fruit palm tree. It is also easy to find a certain type of Cacao fruit (Cupuaçu) that is different to the Cacao fruit we commonly know and rather closer to the Baobab.

The Roura has many wide and small rivers that go from the inner continent to the Atlantic ocean. This makes it very easy to travel and makes these territories appreciated by passionates of nature traveling in these areas, while there are two natural reserves in the area : Nature Reserve swamps of Kaw-Roura and Treasury National Reserve, who attract thousands of people each year.  alon these rivers are also several small cascades in the middle of the forest where it is possible to spend some time feeling the fresh water fall on you. Some cascades like the Fougassié cascades see people regularly, there should be other cascades that attract less people. There is however very few data on this.

The vast majority of the Roura territories are located several kilometers south of Cayenne and Rochambeau airport.

I have finally found some first indication of land price : one piece of untouched forest and nature with road access though, 10 971m² for 45 000€.

Documentation on French Guiana seems quite poor compared to what I see in the other topics here. I am still trying to search more. Tell me if there is a question you would like to see answers or that puzzles you.


Offline Tsmuktengan

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Re: Location idea : French Guiana
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2011, 08:23:36 pm »
I have found an active forum maintained by passionate people who know these territories, and especially the forest there. The forum has a lot of resources about life there : tools, food, hunting stories, risks, basic precautions, etc.

The forum is in French. I am reading it from time to time, and may be able to ask questions and call for their experience. You can also browse it in English (or into your language) here.

Please tell me if you want me to ask questions there or if you find interesting information there.


Offline Nìmwey

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Re: Location idea : French Guiana
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2012, 05:42:50 am »
Since there only seems to be European members left both here as well as on Blue Moon (and partly for my own diminished chances of getting a visa elsewhere), I am mainly looking for locations within the European Union, and am seriously interested in French Guiana now.

I noticed a long time ago that as far as rights, health and quality of life goes, it seems to be the best place in northern South America. It IS in the EU, so it's very practical for us European members (= all of us?).
The only other overseas territories within the EU (meaning: Within the union but not geographically in Europe) are mainly islands. Madeira and the Azores (Portugal), Canary Islands (Spain), Saint-Barthélemy, Guadeloupe, Saint-Martin, Martinique and Réunion (France), and of course a number of British Islands across the world.

French Guiana is in the mainland, has good health and rights (= better than most countries in the region), you are allowed to hunt, there is still pristine, intact rainforest, etcetera. It's really worth looking into more, sorry that I haven't been paying attention before, Tsmuktengan. ;)

Offline Tsanten Eywa 'eveng

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Re: Location idea : French Guiana
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2012, 09:19:38 am »
Since there only seems to be European members left both here as well as on Blue Moon (and partly for my own diminished chances of getting a visa elsewhere), I am mainly looking for locations within the European Union, and am seriously interested in French Guiana now.

I noticed a long time ago that as far as rights, health and quality of life goes, it seems to be the best place in northern South America. It IS in the EU, so it's very practical for us European members (= all of us?).
The only other overseas territories within the EU (meaning: Within the union but not geographically in Europe) are mainly islands. Madeira and the Azores (Portugal), Canary Islands (Spain), Saint-Barthélemy, Guadeloupe, Saint-Martin, Martinique and Réunion (France), and of course a number of British Islands across the world.

French Guiana is in the mainland, has good health and rights (= better than most countries in the region), you are allowed to hunt, there is still pristine, intact rainforest, etcetera. It's really worth looking into more, sorry that I haven't been paying attention before, Tsmuktengan. ;)


I don't know how it is for me, cause we are not part of the European Union. Norway isn't part of it.
I agree. I am very interesting in French Guiana :)

Offline Tsmuktengan

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Re: Location idea : French Guiana
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2012, 08:50:55 am »
I've read your message, but I am very busy currently, too much to send you a complete message. Before attempting anything, I would like us to try to catch as much still interested European members as possible... even if it is only one, two or three people.

I'll come back to you as soon as the storm (work) goes away... and as soon as I can get a bit more energy as well.


Offline Tsmuktengan

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Re: Location idea : French Guiana
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2012, 07:00:14 pm »
When would you people like to talk? I used to work all day, but I can eventually try to isolate myself and participate.

I am also waiting for the activation of my Blue Mountain account to try to get as much people back in as I can.

The idea is to talk about why the projects have  certainly stalled, and see together what we can do to properly start them again, but most importantly start learning and training ourselves and plan a  event where we could train as well. We should also better know the others. Here is the main idea, so that you know what the conference would be about, and why it would be useful.

But before, I would like to get back the attention of a few people, essentially in Europe on my side, but if this can be interesting for other people or help starting something in America as well, then...



Please give me your thoughts on this.


guest2859

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Re: Location idea : French Guiana
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2012, 12:43:43 pm »
[Still lurking, still an option]

 

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