Interesting take on how blind our culture has become..

Txontaw · October 17, 2010, 12:25:05 AM

Andrew Klavan: Liberal Fantasies vs. Reality, Can you Spot the Difference?

Discuss.

Tsteu'itan · October 17, 2010, 01:07:32 AM

I think he's blathering about a lot of one-sided things that he doesn't know anything about.

Point: A lot of Native American cultures were actually matriarchal. That's right, asshat. The women ran the show. gtfo.

Uurrrrrrgggghhhh, I want to bean this guy in the head...Conservative Christian propaganda reaaaaally pisses me off. I come from a Christian household, and seeing the lies they tell to keep themselves on top just makes me want to scream. It's too bad my mom follows a lot of it. 9_9

Seriously, dude, we know Avatar is a fantasy. But tribal life isn't as bad as you seem to "know" it is. Read a text book before you pretend to be an expert on those things.

Txontaw · October 17, 2010, 01:59:24 AM

Yeah, I kinda realized too late that everyone replying would kind of beat him up for taking a negative side on Avatar...

Tsteu'itan · October 17, 2010, 02:04:24 AM

It's not even the Avatar things. It's just everything in general. Sorry if I seemed kind of cranky. When I see things that are propaganda - even propaganda of things I agree with - I tend to get cynical at best. When it's something painting pictures of how the liberals are all morons and the conservatives are the only intelligent people around, I get extremely irritated.

Txontaw · October 17, 2010, 02:10:01 AM

I've seen some of his other stuff, and although he is conservative, it seems he really just makes fun of the side that is being the biggest moron, which is the Democrats as of now. Although he is a bit extreme, I do enjoy his satires, and this one makes some good points:

Andrew Klavan: Obama's Beach Blanket Recovery: It's Happy, Snappy & Incredibly Crappy.

Overall, though, I really hate politics. It's just a bunch of over-pained public speakers that are experts at telling us what we want.

Tsteu'itan · October 17, 2010, 02:15:48 AM

I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree. I know politics is a hot spot, and I don't want to offend anyone by getting too political myself. If others are open to a good, clean-cut conversation about it, though, that's fine.

I'll just bow out of it.

Tsyal Maktoyu · October 17, 2010, 02:39:02 AM

Ugh, those videos.

Nothing more annoying than headstrong right wingers regurgitating the old anti-environmentist, laissez faire, "savage savage" mantra. As if there wasn't enough already on Fox, and the rest of the hooligans in the right-wing media (and it is, the only really liberal media is MSNBC, sans Joe Scarborough). Here's another (rather serious) piece about the illusion of culture, though with a liberal twist, if you're interested: http://www.alternet.org/media/148449/our_country_is_lost_believing_in_what_it_sees_on_screens%2C_and_we_are_going_to_pay_a_nasty_price_for_it/

The democrats are making asses out of themselves because the republicans are being obstructionists. Anything that doesn't follow the neo-con agenda they just automatically vote against (all in lock-step, might I add). They don't call them "the party of no" for nothing. Though probably a good portion of the dems are just as bought-and-paid-for as the repugs. And actually, Obamas recovery plan (at least the stuff that he managed to eek through) did save jobs. The problem is that only part of his recovery plan was able to come to fruition, the rest is being gummed up in the Senate by right-wing obstructionism.

Though if you like satire, another one you would like is Penn and Teller's "Bulls***" on Showtime. I disagree with a lot of what they say when it comes to environmentalism, though they make some good points when it comes to social issues, such as the war on drugs and the war on videogames.

Though I'm not much of a debater, so I hope you wouldn't mind agreeing to disagree with me, too.

Txontaw · October 17, 2010, 02:44:38 AM

I would come up with some clever rebuttal, but like I stated above;

QuoteOverall, though, I really hate politics. It's just a bunch of over-paid public speakers that are experts at telling us what we want.

Therefore I do not follow politics enough to do so.

Tsyal Maktoyu · October 17, 2010, 02:59:43 AM

I'm a total political junkie.

ExLibrisMortis · October 17, 2010, 04:22:15 AM

Obama's recovery plan did save job yes, but how many? And was it really worth it? And before you start showing me numbers, check your sources. Really check you sources. Because that same Gov't which has now put you (if you are 25 and younger) and your children in responsibility for paying a good amount of taxes when you get older, is the same one that likes to double and triple count jobs gained. For example, I worked for the census. They fired me and re-hired me 3 times so that they could count me as 3 separate jobs generated. People who worked on a job site that was paid by two or more different sets of contracts were counted once for each source of which the money was coming.

Yet, it is true what this guy speaks. I mean, if you really compare the facts of life, as determined by real science, and not the doctored ones that Al Gore likes to drum up, you will see that what the American Cinema likes to imitate is not close to reality. To be quite honest, the majority of the Native Americans weren't actually matriarchal, they had traditional gender roles with Masculine leaderships. What you might have misheard is that the Native Americans, More than not, but not completely, understood the roles of each gender within their societies. Only a few of them really had anything near Matriarchal societies, and even then it wasn't truly matriarchal. Probably matrilineal, but not truly matriarchal.

Anyways, the stuff he said about Avatar though really did make sense. I mean Avatar was as preachy as the rest of the movies out there, and it OBVIOUSLY had an agenda behind it also. To leave it blameless just because of how good the movie is, is plain ignorance. The US military is made up of some of the bravest and most stupid people I have ever met. I seem to circle myself with many members of our armed forces and am quite thrilled to see many of them fighting for me. And yes, at times I see others that are so stupid I wonder how they even got in. But ya know, when it comes to it, America and it's military spends so much money on welfare for other countries that tend to turn it right back on us and spit in our faces.

Its impossible to do anything these days without getting hit by some sort of propaganda or another. Whether its advertising, political, religious, or atheist, or deist, or paganist, or racist, or sexist, or humanist? Anyways, society is where it is because we all had a hand it in some how. No one stands blameless and everyone is responsible for its change.

Two cents dropped in the box.

Eyamsiyu · October 17, 2010, 07:06:28 AM

Everything has a message. What the content is and the sources they (hopefully) cite is what makes that piece of media trustworthy or not.

As much as I HATE to say it, wikipedia isn't a reliable source for these things, nor is the internet in general. Yes, it may help in certain areas, but truthfully the only source you can ever really trust with any form of information are "scholarly sources," such as informative books, scholarly journals, etc...

As far as everything political goes, I simply love the quote from V for Vendetta about who should fear who. I think both parties have forgotten that...

And as far as Conservative Christian propaganda goes, I hate it too.

Txontaw · October 17, 2010, 04:34:51 PM

IMHO, Wikipedia is a credible source as long as what you are searching for ISN'T a controversial topic. Something that has nothing but facts associated with it, like the elements, it's very rare for you to find false information about that topic. However, once you stray into the realm of topics based on mostly opinions and ideologies, that's where it is not wise to take information from an openly editable source.

This is true for most, if not all of the rest of the internet as well.

That being said, I agree that if you want definitely factual information, try and get print.

Tsyal Maktoyu · October 17, 2010, 04:57:55 PM

An important thing to remember is that SecOps is not the US military. It is a private mercenary group contracted by the RDA to protect them on Pandora (though maybe JC didn't make that clear enough in the movie). With that said, I think they are actually pretty good representation of many of how the private security forces that exist today act. I remember there was a case where a group of Blackwater agents opened fire on a vehicle full of Marines, killing one of them and injuring several more. Upon investigation the military discovered that they were not only not trained on how to use their weapons, but were also high on cocaine. Then there was another case where a bunch of Blackwater agents disarmed US soldiers after a car accident. Not to mention the countless cases of firing on civilians. I have the utmost respect for the US military, it takes a lot of courage to do what they do on a daily basis. It is groups like Blackwater that are made up of "trigger happy morons."

ExLibrisMortis · October 18, 2010, 02:55:14 AM

Studies show that wikipedia is almost, if not, as accurate as Encyclopedia Britannica. Nuff Said.

Regarding the SecOps, although it wasn't specified by JC that they were not the US Army, it still follows the trend of Hollywood. Yes, they were techincally Mercs, but still, the way they were portrayed and the terms that were used mimiced highly that of the US military and it's tactics. It's kinda like making a quip at someone but being ambiguous enough to not allow any backlash to really hit you.

Eyamsiyu · October 18, 2010, 05:40:42 AM

Quote from: ExLibrisMortis on October 18, 2010, 02:55:14 AM
Studies show that wikipedia is almost, if not, as accurate as Encyclopedia Britannica. Nuff Said.

94% of all statistics are made up.

Including this one.

ExLibrisMortis · October 18, 2010, 03:49:36 PM

Quote from: Eyamsiyu on October 18, 2010, 05:40:42 AM
Quote from: ExLibrisMortis on October 18, 2010, 02:55:14 AM
Studies show that wikipedia is almost, if not, as accurate as Encyclopedia Britannica. Nuff Said.

94% of all statistics are made up. Including this one.

Sure, don't believe the IVY league scholastics studies.

Nantxe'lan · October 19, 2010, 07:29:49 AM

y'know... studies and statistics have one thing in common with holy books:
Only those who wrote it know if its content is true or not.
the only thing you can do is to decide if you want to believe it or not.

Txontaw · October 19, 2010, 01:24:45 PM

Quote from: Nantxe'lan on October 19, 2010, 07:29:49 AM
y'know... studies and statistics have one thing in common with holy books:
Only those who wrote it know if its content is true or not.
the only thing you can do is to decide if you want to believe it or not.

I like that statistic. It's totally true. Whenever I've had a science vs. religion argument (or something similar), it's always boiled down to "You stick to your side and I'll stick to mine, and we'll see who's right in the end."