Author Topic: Re: Can sombody cheack this?  (Read 1227 times)

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Offline Tswusayona Tsamsiyu

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Re: Can sombody cheack this?
« on: May 01, 2011, 05:35:02 am »
I think it is right except that instead of na fì'u use fìfya. in na fì'u you're refering to a noun.
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Offline Yayo

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Re: Can sombody cheack this?
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2011, 05:43:19 am »
I think it is right except that instead of na fì'u use fìfya. in na fì'u you're refering to a noun.
Yeah, that's right. Unless you're referring to a noun, it would be more appropriate to note that you do it "this way".


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Offline Sireayä mokri

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Re: Can sombody cheack this?
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2011, 06:04:59 am »
If that's about an action being performed in the same manner, then it should be nìtengfya.
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Offline Tswusayona Tsamsiyu

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Re: Can sombody cheack this?
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2011, 06:09:58 am »
I think fìfya would work here too because you're doing it this way so it's obviously done in a similar way. when you're not talking about something specific (this) the only option is nìtengfya, but I think that when you do refer to this action they both work the same. and if this is correct then when you're refering to that action tsafya can be used this way.
just my thoughts.
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Offline Sireayä mokri

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Re: Can sombody cheack this?
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2011, 06:36:50 am »
It's exactly nìtengfya that tells us that it's done in a similar way. Fìfya just states that you do it in a specific way.

  Oe fìkem si fìfya — I do it this way (my own way, for example).
  Oe fìkem si nìtengfya — I do it the same way as you (or somebody else) do.
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Offline Tswusayona Tsamsiyu

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Re: Can sombody cheack this?
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2011, 07:02:43 am »
nìtengfya then.
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Offline Tswusayona Tsamsiyu

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Re: Can sombody cheack this?
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2011, 02:05:05 pm »
it depends if you mean "I will create more this way" or "I will create more things like this one".
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Offline Tswusayona Tsamsiyu

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Re: Can sombody cheack this?
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2011, 02:26:08 pm »
then it's ngìyevop nì'ul fìfne'uti or ngìyevop nì'ul ayu a na fìpum. any other suggestions or corrections welcomed.
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Offline Tanri

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Re: Can sombody cheack this?
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2011, 03:31:46 pm »
Isn't "nì'ul" limited to use only with adjectives, or with another adverbs? Can be really used as "bigger count of something"?

If not, i would have written the same meaning this way:
Oel ngìyevop holpxayìl atxan nì'ul fayuä.

But i am afraid that my phrase is somewhat "over-constructed"...  :)
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Offline Sireayä mokri

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Re: Can sombody cheack this?
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2011, 08:28:34 am »
Isn't "nì'ul" limited to use only with adjectives, or with another adverbs?

No, there's no such limitation. From the movie:

  Nì'ul kame tskxe.
When the mirror speaks, the reflection lies.

Offline Tanri

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Re: Can sombody cheack this?
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2011, 03:10:59 pm »
Isn't "nì'ul" limited to use only with adjectives, or with another adverbs?
No, there's no such limitation. From the movie:
  Nì'ul kame tskxe.
Thanks for clarification.

Ahah... but can somebody tell me (in detail) why oel niveyop nì'ul na fì'ut...
seams like I still don't understand it  :(
Irayo  ;)

It's basically a phrase:
Oe-l ngop fì-'u-t - "I create this thing."

Added infix <ìyev> / <iyev> conveys a meaning of some kind of wish:
Oel ngiyevop fì'ut - Wish i create this thing.

If we don't want to express wish, but only future, i think we must use only the <ìy>, <ay>, or the intentional futures <ìsy>, <asy> infixes.

Now, the remaining question is how to express the meaning "more things like this one":
- "more" is "nì'ul" and we know that it can be used this way
- "like" corresponds to adposition "na"
Using these, i think the entire sentence should be:

Oel ngiyevop nì'ul ayut na fì'u. - literally "Wish i create more things like this thing."
or
Oel ngasyop nì'ul ayut na fì'u. - literally "I will create more things like this thing."

Your sentence, ma Ikranari, looks like a result of shortening of one of the sentences above, where the form of the shortening expresses the grammatical courage of its author.  :)
« Last Edit: May 02, 2011, 03:14:15 pm by Tanri »
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Offline omängum fra'uti

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Re: Can sombody cheack this?
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2011, 06:47:02 pm »
Saying ìyev is expressing a wish is very much oversimplifying.  The subjunctive form (iv, ìyev, iyev, imv, irv, ilv) of a verb expresses, among other things, a possibility, wish, or desire.  But a wish would be rangal, subjunctive alone doesn't express that.  In fact, subjunctive could just as easily express something you would rather did not happen, but is still a possibility.

So what's the difference between ìyev, ay and asy?

ìyev - it is possible something may happen (Doesn't mean that you necessarily WANT it to happen, just that it is a possibility..  For example, txo oe ke flayä, pxaya tute tìyeverkup If I don't succeed, many people may die)
ay - it is something that will happen (No statement about your involvement in it happening or not, for example Tompa zayup trray It will rain tomorrow)
asy - it is something that you are determined to make happen (You intend to do what you can to make it happen...  For example, nga ke hasyum - You will not leave, with an indication that I will not let you leave)

So for the sense of "I may create more" ìyev is the best chose.  If it were just a statement of "I will create more" then ay would work.  The difference between -ay- and -asy- is mostly subtleties when you are saying something that you will do that is an action, but could carry more meaning if it's something that could as easily happen without your influence.
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Offline Tanri

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Re: Can sombody cheack this?
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2011, 04:45:44 am »
Saying ìyev is expressing a wish is very much oversimplifying.
Fì'uri oeru txoa livu, ma omängum fra'uti. Ngaru tìyawr.
Perhaps my brain worked only half throttle when i focused on this single meaning.

I mean the ''I will create more things like this one''  :D
Indeed, there is nothing about wish, thus the <ay> future fits best. Then, this should be the version nearest to meaning Ikranari wants:
"Oel ngayop nì'ul ayut na fì'u." - literally "I will create more things like this thing."

Ahah... but can somebody tell me (in detail) why oel niveyop nì'ul na fì'ut...
seams like I still don't understand it  :(
Faylì'u lu ngäzìk oeru nìteng, ma Ikranari.
When i read "oel ngiyevop nì'ul na fì'ut" first time, it was like "i create more of this things", where the focus "what is created" is not placed on the word "things", but on the word "more". Just as if "more" was a synonym of "bigger count". This was the source of my question about "nì'ul".
Finally i got the appropriate meaning, but this shortened version is very awkward to me and i would never use it.
I would have written "Oel ngayop nì'ul ayut na fì'u", and i would never release any word from it, because i don't see any logical reason for shortening.
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Offline Tswusayona Tsamsiyu

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Re: Can sombody cheack this?
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2011, 08:37:25 am »
Quote
"Oel ngayop nì'ul ayut na fì'u."
I'd write this as: "ngìyevop nì'ul fìfne'uti" (I'll create more this kind of thing). it's shortened.
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Offline omängum fra'uti

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Re: Can sombody cheack this?
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2011, 02:06:22 pm »
I mean the ''I will create more things like this one''  :D
Indeed, there is nothing about wish, thus the <ay> future fits best. Then, this should be the version nearest to meaning Ikranari wants:
"Oel ngayop nì'ul ayut na fì'u." - literally "I will create more things like this thing."

That's missing some context.  Look back over the posts.

Hi  :D
just a simple question...

oe ngiyevop nì'ul na fì'u...
is that said right?

Irayo  ;)
Note the mouseover text.  "I may create more like this"...  The quote you picked up came later, but with the context...

it depends if you mean "I will create more this way" or "I will create more things like this one".
I mean the ''I will create more things like this one''  :D
The loss of "may" came from other people (Here quoted from Tswusayona Tsamsiyu, but possible it had already been dropped by then).  Then the question is giving the option of "...more this way" vs "...more things like this one" which Ikranari chooses the one from those two closer to his meaning, ignoring the parts which are the same, though they have already differed from his desired meaning.

However, no point me reading into this when Ikranari can speak for himself.  So Ikranari, did you intend to express a possibility of creating more in the future, or something a little more certain?
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