Author Topic: Can we use Na’vi for “people”?  (Read 1290 times)

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Offline Plumps

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Can we use Na’vi for “people”?
« on: March 20, 2016, 05:22:07 am »
Here’s an interesting question…

Na’vi means “the People” or “the Na’vi people”. Now, if we want to talk about a people other than the Na’vi, in the sense of “folk, nation, race” can we use na’vi here as well?

As in “The people of Earth” – Ayna’vi ’Rrtayä

???

Offline Tìtstewan

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Re: Can we use Na’vi for “people”?
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2016, 06:54:05 am »
I'd go for tute :) For a Na'vi inhabitant, "tawtute" would be the appropiate meaning of "The (sky)people of Earth" or just Tute 'Rrtayä. :)

Short example from Na'viteri.
Oel tse’a ’a’awa tutet. ‘I see several people.’
Oel tse’a hola tutet. ‘I see only a few people.’

’Ul tute, ’ul tìngäzìk. ‘The more people, the more problems.’
« Last Edit: March 20, 2016, 07:00:37 am by Tìtstewan »

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Re: Can we use Na’vi for “people”?
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2016, 09:53:37 am »
I agree with Tìtstewan.

Na’vi means “the People” or “the Na’vi people”. Now, if we want to talk about a people other than the Na’vi, in the sense of “folk, nation, race” can we use na’vi here as well?

As in “The people of Earth” – Ayna’vi ’Rrtayä

When we want talk about people from Earth, Tute 'Rrtayä is better.

Na'vi means rather People of Pandora than people generally  ???

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Re: Can we use Na’vi for “people”?
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2016, 12:19:49 pm »
Quote from: Dict-Na'vi.com ;
English:   (the) Na'vi
(the) People ; indigenous Pandorian sentient race
source:   Avatar Movie ; link
Na'vi is name of human-like race on Pandora.

=> sute Eywa'evengä - people of Pandora -> Na'vi

Quote from: Dict-Na'vi.com
English:   Skyperson ; human
source: missing ; link
Tawtute is how Na'vi called humans.

=> sute 'Rrtayä - people of Earth -> Humans/Humankind

Na'vi is name of people of Pandora.

Tawtute is Na'vi-yä name for humankind.

You can use Na'vi only for specific people on Pandora. For people generally, you use sute, plural of tute.
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Offline Vawmataw

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Re: Can we use Na’vi for “people”?
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2016, 12:23:04 pm »
sute Xä means 'the people/individuals of X''
It's not wrong, but I think we still need a word for ''collectivity/nation/people''.
There is probably more than one nation on Pandora.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2016, 12:40:08 pm by Vawmataw »
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Re: Can we use Na’vi for “people”?
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2016, 12:33:35 pm »
sute Xä means 'the people/individuals of X''
It's not wrong, but I think we still need a word for ''collectivity/nation/people''.
There is probably more than one nation on Earth.
Yes, I agree with you. There is really a big difference between  sute (several people) and nation
We need rather new word for this.

Long live LEP!
Yeah, good idea for LEP.
But I absolutely haven't any idea for this  :-\

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Re: Can we use Na’vi for “people”?
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2016, 12:45:55 pm »
Na'vi already means folk, at least the inhabitants of Pandora call themself "Na'vi".
It is similar as *we* call us "Human" on planetary level.

That should not be confused with tribe names which is a different story. Also, "nation" will not work well because the Na'vi don't have the concept of "nation" and that will borderline Cameronian territory.

Btw, tute can mean also people. :)

Addendum:
And this I found on Na'viteri:
Tompakeltalun zene tute Kälìforniayä payit sivar nìnän.
‘Because of the drought, Californians have to use less water.’

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Re: Can we use Na’vi for “people”?
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2016, 03:07:30 pm »
It seems I didn’t make myself clear…

     person (sg., dt.: Person, na.: tute) => people (pl., dt.: Personen/Leute, na.: (ay)sute)

I know that. My question is whether the meaning of:

     people (sg., dt.: Volk) => peoples (pl., dt.: Völker)

is conveyed with Na’vi.

I seem to remember that indigenous people sometimes call themselves “the People” because in their world view they are the only ones. They didn’t have contact with the outside world.

If Na’vi means “the People” (kezemplltxe, it’s the Na’vi people (Volk der Na’vi) on Pandora), then theoretically, one could use na’vi as a generic term for other races to mean “people”. Let’s say in the Star Trek universe the Vulcans, Klingons, Humans are all different na’vi. It doesn’t matter if they have other distinctions further down the line – as the Na’vi do, btw.: Na’vi (the people) > olo’ (clan) > soaia (family) > tute (individual)

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Re: Can we use Na’vi for “people”?
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2016, 03:21:27 pm »
It seems I didn’t make myself clear…
I seem to remember that indigenous people sometimes call themselves “the People” because in their world view they are the only ones. They didn’t have contact with the outside world.

If Na’vi means “the People” (kezemplltxe, it’s the Na’vi people (Volk der Na’vi) on Pandora), then theoretically, one could use na’vi as a generic term for other races to mean “people”. Let’s say in the Star Trek universe the Vulcans, Klingons, Humans are all different na’vi. It doesn’t matter if they have other distinctions further down the line – as the Na’vi do, btw.: Na’vi (the people) > olo’ (clan) > soaia (family) > tute (individual)


It's look as right idea. From this perspective it would be possible.

But for me is Na'vi still associated exclusively with inhabitants of Pandora ...  :-\ 

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Re: Can we use Na’vi for “people”?
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2016, 03:28:18 pm »
Sure, it is definitely Cameronian territory!

It was just an idea that popped into my head when I attempted a translation. The safest way is surely sute Vulkanä, sute leTllìngan (Kxìronosä), sute ’Rrtayä (am I the only one who feels that tawtute is still a bit derogatory? :-\ )

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Re: Can we use Na’vi for “people”?
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2016, 03:38:50 pm »
(am I the only one who feels that tawtute is still a bit derogatory? :-\ )

No, I also feel tawtute as a bit derogatory.


 

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Re: Can we use Na’vi for “people”?
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2016, 04:07:11 pm »
That would be weird to call all other species as "Na'vi". I do not want to intent to say that this is impossible, but if Na'vi could be used to cover the meaning for "people" (Volk) then, this would be really the first time I hear/read such a use.

The Na'vi call us tawtute because from their perspecive we come from the sky. I personally find it a bit strange, but yeah. There is indeed a (cool?) question: How the Na'vi would call us then if not tawtute? They know we are not really dropped "from the sky". I only guess something like *human (if they loan it from english).
« Last Edit: March 20, 2016, 04:31:27 pm by Tìtstewan »

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Re: Can we use Na’vi for “people”?
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2016, 04:26:09 pm »
How about just tute? ;D
I think they recognise us as similar enough beings ;)

Plus *hy is not an allowed cluster. It would probably just stay as *human or *humìn depending on the English pronunciation.

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Re: Can we use Na’vi for “people”?
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2016, 04:29:38 pm »
That would be weird to call all other species as "Na'vi". I do not want to intent to say that this is impossible, but if Na'vi could be used to cover the meaning for "people" (Volk) then, this would be really the first time I hear/read such a use.

I think, everytime we (or most people) hear word Na'vi (or Avatar), it reminds us to big blue human-like species of Pandora. It'd sound super weird/ridiculous to call all species as 'Na'vi'. In addition, as a Na'vi, I'd feel quite offended that someone who cannot 'See' call himself Na'vi.

The Na'vi call us tawtute because from their perspecive we come from the sky. I personally find it a bit strange, but yeah. There is indeed a (cool?) question: How the Na'vi would call us then if not tawtute? They know we are not really dropped "from the sky". I only guess something like *hyuman (if they loan it from english).

Na'vi called human Tawtute because humans came from sky by spaceships. It lit. mean 'Sky people' - 'people who come from sky' and I dont think,they'd call us humìn, at least, not after these things that they did to Na'vi.



btw As for Pandora, Clans work there as nations on Earth. So nations on Earth could be same thing as clans on Pandora.
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Re: Can we use Na’vi for “people”?
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2016, 04:38:53 pm »
How about just tute? ;D
I think they recognise us as similar enough beings ;)

Yeah, it would be the best choice, I think  :) (despite the fact that is difference between people (individual) and nation)


btw As for Pandora, Clans work there as nations on Earth. So nations on Earth could be same thing as clans on Pandora.

It's also interesting idea.  :)

Tute 'Rrtayä    ...    (ay)olo' 'Rrtayä

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Re: Can we use Na’vi for “people”?
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2016, 05:07:14 pm »
I think, everytime we (or most people) hear word Na'vi (or Avatar), it reminds us to big blue human-like species of Pandora. It'd sound super weird/ridiculous to call all species as 'Na'vi'. In addition, as a Na'vi, I'd feel quite offended that someone who cannot 'See' call himself Na'vi.

Oh, I didn’t know that Na’vi and kame are an unseparable pair :P

Again, that’s not what I meant. But never mind…

Na'vi called human Tawtute because humans came from sky by spaceships. It lit. mean 'Sky people' - 'people who come from sky' and I dont think,they'd call us humìn, at least, not after these things that they did to Na'vi.

Remember that they don’t have the connection that the word in English (other languages) brings with it ;) It’s just a word that is transformed into the phonology of the Na’vi sound system.

If whoever who had first contact with the Na’vi said, “we’re called ‘human’,” and the Na’vi try to pronounce that and apply this meaning to those little beings that came from the sky … well, then they are *humìn (or however you want to transcribe it). No other connotation than “those are the aliens that came from the sky onto Eywa’eveng”.


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Re: Can we use Na’vi for “people”?
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2016, 05:28:55 pm »
That's not my quote. :P


Well, we could ask Pawl if we can have an alternative name for human. As for the people question, perhaps, tute can be interpreted as people/folk (Volk) too, at least one could translate that example from Na'viteri in that way. :)

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Re: Can we use Na’vi for “people”?
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2016, 05:33:57 pm »
I agree. We should ask him.
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Re: Can we use Na’vi for “people”?
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2016, 05:39:50 pm »
Yes, it would be useful word

As for the people question, perhaps, tute can be interpreted as people/folk (Volk) too, at least one could translate that example from Na'viteri in that way. :)
I think it too, but special word for this would be better.

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Re: Can we use Na’vi for “people”?
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2016, 02:51:19 pm »
I could also see Na'vi 'Rrtyä, as Na'vi is not countable. This could be somewhat honorific. sute is generic, and this form should be used when describing a tribe/nation. I also agree that sawtute is at least somewhat derogatory.

However, this is definitely stuff for K. Pawl.

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