Author Topic: Can you help me?  (Read 1186 times)

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Offline Reykoveyzä te Werufalä Haflak'ite

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Can you help me?
« on: December 04, 2011, 11:17:17 am »
I'm just wondering, to say "we are Eywa's chosen" would it be
Ayoeng lu Eywayä tìftxey or Ayoeng lu Eywaru tìftxey
Its just whether to use the -ru or the -yä, and what both actually mean, that's confusing me, because you say oeru lu fpom srak but I've read hawnuyu Na'viyä which I took to mean protector OF the Na'vi so I'm just wondering what the difference is. Irayo ma frapo
Irayo, ma frapo, ma oeyä smuke sì ma oeyä smukan.
Vivar 'ivong Na'vi! Eywa ayngahu!



*if i make a mistake in any of my Na'vi, please correct me :)

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Can you help me?
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2011, 11:29:41 am »
I'm just wondering, to say "we are Eywa's chosen" would it be
Ayoeng lu Eywayä tìftxey or Ayoeng lu Eywaru tìftxey
Its just whether to use the -ru or the -yä, and what both actually mean, that's confusing me, because you say oeru lu fpom srak but I've read hawnuyu Na'viyä which I took to mean protector OF the Na'vi so I'm just wondering what the difference is. Irayo ma frapo

its the first not the second. yä is about possession, which is what you are conveying with "Eywa's choice"

ru marks an indirect object, but the idiom for "x HAS y" is "lu xru Y"

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Offline Tanri

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Re: Can you help me?
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2011, 11:39:54 am »
I wouldn't say "tìftxey" when speaking about people.

Ayoeng lu sute a Eywal ftxoley. - literally "We are the people who were chosen by Eywa"

Unlike the original "we are Eywa's chosen", this sentence is composed from two clauses -
main one is "Ayoeng lu sute", and the people are described in second clause, connected by attributive a - "a fot Eywal ftxoley".
Then the pronoun fo can be dropped, because it is clear that it refers to the "sute" in the main clause.

Quote
ru marks an indirect object, but the idiom for "x HAS y" is "lu xru Y"
Yes, in general, -ru is meant to be a recipient (of some action). This can be seen even in "lu oeru X" - "X is for me, I have X", or in "kìte’e si por" - "to do service for him, to serve him".
« Last Edit: December 04, 2011, 12:07:38 pm by Tanri »
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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Can you help me?
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2011, 01:55:20 pm »
ah yes. I totally agree. I like that translation. Because tìftxey means a choice or a decision.

some super wise words to go by:

Quote
Translate the meaning, not the words.

more times than not, direct translation does not work either because of na'vi vocabulary deficiency or because of grammar incompatibilities between native lanvuage and na'vi.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2011, 01:57:11 pm by Tirea Aean »

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Offline Reykoveyzä te Werufalä Haflak'ite

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Re: Can you help me?
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2011, 02:06:34 pm »
Srane, Oe mllte. Irayo, ma aysmuk. I'm new to this language so sometimes I just have to trust the translator  :D
Irayo, ma frapo, ma oeyä smuke sì ma oeyä smukan.
Vivar 'ivong Na'vi! Eywa ayngahu!



*if i make a mistake in any of my Na'vi, please correct me :)

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Can you help me?
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2011, 08:32:19 am »
which translator? ;)

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Offline Reykoveyzä te Werufalä Haflak'ite

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Re: Can you help me?
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2011, 11:00:37 am »
The iPod one. It doesn't have much detail on words meanings so you just have to go with it
Irayo, ma frapo, ma oeyä smuke sì ma oeyä smukan.
Vivar 'ivong Na'vi! Eywa ayngahu!



*if i make a mistake in any of my Na'vi, please correct me :)

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Can you help me?
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2011, 11:21:29 am »
many of the newest words have example sentences on Frommer's blog http://naviteri.org which is where new words continue to be released and then added to the dictionary

yeah, the issue has been raised whether example sentences for each word should be included in the LearnNavi.org dictionary PDF... I think we decided that it would be a great idea, but really difficult and time-consuming to implement at first.

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Offline Carborundum

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Re: Can you help me?
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2011, 12:16:41 pm »
yeah, the issue has been raised whether example sentences for each word should be included in the LearnNavi.org dictionary PDF... I think we decided that it would be a great idea, but really difficult and time-consuming to implement at first.

There is also the wiki dictionary, which does include example sentences when such are available.
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Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Can you help me?
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2011, 02:57:30 pm »
In general, trying to use a computer to do translation results in very bad renderings-- try and break yourself of this as soon as you can. That said, a vocabulary list on your phone/tablet is an extremely handy thing. However, you have to learn to do the translation. (And I am frequently accused of being too literal in my translations as well  :P )

One really easy way to remember the proper use of -ru and -yä is to think of -ru as 'to (noun)' and -yä as 'of (noun)'. You will see that this works in your first try at your sentence (although Tanrì's sentence is more correct).

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Offline Reykoveyzä te Werufalä Haflak'ite

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Re: Can you help me?
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2011, 04:32:44 pm »
So if I wanted to say, for example, 'the toruk of Jake' that would be torukyä jakesully?
And if I wanted to say 'give the toruk  to me' would it be tìng toruk oeru or tìng torukru oe (I think it's the first?)
And 'the toruk is mine' would be toruk lu oeyä?
I hope I'm getting this.
Irayo, ma frapo, ma oeyä smuke sì ma oeyä smukan.
Vivar 'ivong Na'vi! Eywa ayngahu!



*if i make a mistake in any of my Na'vi, please correct me :)

Offline Kamean

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Re: Can you help me?
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2011, 04:58:28 pm »
So if I wanted to say, for example, 'the toruk of Jake' that would be torukyä jakesully?
And if I wanted to say 'give the toruk  to me' would it be tìng toruk oeru or tìng torukru oe (I think it's the first?)
And 'the toruk is mine' would be toruk lu oeyä?
I hope I'm getting this.
1 - Tseykìyä Toruk
2 - t(iv)ìng Toruk oeru, iv - if it's request, but full expression would be: Ngal tìng Torukit oer(u).
3 - or oeyä Toruk
« Last Edit: December 05, 2011, 05:01:32 pm by Kamean »
Tse'a ngal ke'ut a krr fra'uti kame.


Offline Reykoveyzä te Werufalä Haflak'ite

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Re: Can you help me?
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2011, 05:24:35 pm »
So if I wanted to say, for example, 'the toruk of Jake' that would be torukyä jakesully?
And if I wanted to say  ;D
And 'the toruk is mine' would be toruk lu oeyä?
I hope I'm getting this.
1 - Tseykìyä Toruk
2 - t(iv)ìng Toruk oeru, iv - if it's request, but full expression would be: Ngal tìng Torukit oer(u).
3 - or oeyä Toruk

So in the tivìng toruk oeru iv what does the (iv) and the ,iv mean?
And in ngal tìng torukit oeru what do the -l on the Nga and the -it on the toruk mean?
Irayo, ma frapo, ma oeyä smuke sì ma oeyä smukan.
Vivar 'ivong Na'vi! Eywa ayngahu!



*if i make a mistake in any of my Na'vi, please correct me :)

Offline Kamean

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Re: Can you help me?
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2011, 05:44:17 pm »
When the subject (nouns/pronouns) of a sentence performs some action (verb) that affects
another thing (direct object), special endings must be placed on the subject (called the
agentive) and the direct object (called the patientive) to indicate role. The endings are as
follows:
               Ends in Vowel Ends in Consonant
Agentive            -l                   -ìl
Patientive         -t(i)                -it

iv are subjunctive mood verbal infix in position 1 : Ngal new futa oe wivem. You
want this thing: for me to fight.

You should download Na'vi in a Nutshell. Go to Main page - Downloads. :)
Tse'a ngal ke'ut a krr fra'uti kame.


Offline Reykoveyzä te Werufalä Haflak'ite

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Re: Can you help me?
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2011, 01:43:39 am »
I have done, but it has a lot of confusing terminology in it, kind of like what you just used and I don't get what they all mean  :-\
Irayo, ma frapo, ma oeyä smuke sì ma oeyä smukan.
Vivar 'ivong Na'vi! Eywa ayngahu!



*if i make a mistake in any of my Na'vi, please correct me :)

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Can you help me?
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2011, 07:44:17 am »
I have done, but it has a lot of confusing terminology in it, kind of like what you just used and I don't get what they all mean  :-\

this is exactly why I recommend Project NgayNume.

[ProjectNgayNume.com]
[/project-ngaynume]
« Last Edit: December 06, 2011, 07:46:45 am by Tirea Aean »

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Offline Tanri

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Re: Can you help me?
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2011, 08:37:40 am »
this is exactly why I recommend Project NgayNume.
Yes!
Teamspeak in general is a great tool for this kind of explaining.
... some of us are still trying to be online at the times of last round of Ngaynume, as I do in Friday 18:00 GMT+1 (or 17:00 UK time).
Maybe I should extend this behavior to more days in week ;D
Tìvawmìri txopu rä’ä si. Nrr!

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Can you help me?
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2011, 08:52:12 am »
anyone able to come into TS right now? :P

Yeah I agree. That and the prezi lessons. They can teach words and grammar easily without requiring a linguistics Ph.D (or using wikipedia for that matter ;D)

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