First translation feedback required

Started by Luciancanad, November 21, 2011, 06:13:47 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Tirea Aean

Quote from: Luciancanad on November 24, 2011, 05:08:47 PM
So... it depends on the verb having a direct object... and an indirect one for the dative? If the object has been omitted or doesn't exist (Oe tslam), then I suppress both the suffixes?

sure. if you suppress the direct object, just let it be suppressed, and -l is dropped:

po kar oeru
he teaches me

if you suppress the indirect object, let it be so, but don't drop -l or -t:

pol kar lì'fyati
he teaches the language

in this kind of case, it's pretty rare to omit both objects.

It is rather common to omit the direct object in transitive sentences. in this case, most of the time, both -l and -t are dropped:

Oel yerom syuvet
I'm eating food.

oe yerom.
I'm eating.

Luciancanad

I am here once again. This time I ask for pre-translation guidance. How do I say "for"? ??? (as in "Thank you for...")

Ah, and just as I was reviewing my stories, I found a stray phrase I had forgotten I translated  :-[

This brings me, first and foremost, to the question: Proper names can be used with -l and -ti suffixes? [i.e. Neytiri-l poru run (taking a huge risk here, since I'm not fully aware of how the dative works :-X]

Kemaweyan

Quote from: Luciancanad on December 05, 2011, 08:08:14 PM
I am here once again. This time I ask for pre-translation guidance. How do I say "for"? ??? (as in "Thank you for...")

Use topic:

  Srungìri oe ngaru seiyi irayo.
  Thank you for help.
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Luciancanad


Tirea Aean

#44
Quote from: Luciancanad on December 05, 2011, 09:14:06 PM
So it's this -iri suffix?

Yeah. use the -ri/ìri suffix to say "for" in the following constructions:

0.) Tsa'uri irayo
     Thanks for that

1.) Tsa'uri kllfro' oe
     I'm responsible for that

2.) Tsa'uri oe pey
     I wait for that

3.) 'upxareri oe pamrel si
     I write the message

4.) tsa'uri tsap'alute si oe
     I apologize for that

otherwise, "for" translates to "fpi+"

Oe 'em fpi sa'sem oeyä = Oe 'em oeyä sa'semfpi
I cook for my parents.

Luciancanad

I see... so the translation for "Thank you for this wonderful opportunity" would be:

"Kosman fiskxomri irayo"?

Tirea Aean

#46
Quote from: Luciancanad on December 06, 2011, 07:05:29 AM
I see... so the translation for "Thank you for this wonderful opportunity" would be:

"Kosmana fiskxomri irayo"?

that is indeed one way to say it. (other word orders of that are also valid) except you forgot the attributive adjective a(in blue)

another valid word order:

skxomìri akosman irayo

Tanri

Too late, but ... a long version ;D

Fìskxomìri akosman oe ngaru irayo si.

Fì-skxom-ìri   = this - opportunity - topic
a-kosman     = attributive a - wonderful
nga-ru         = you -dative (for you)
irayo si        = to do thanks (to thank)

Literally: Regarding this wonderful opportunity, I thank you.

If some noun or entire clause is marked with topical, it should be placed in the very beginning of the sentence.
Also, in a sentence like this, i would place a positive affect <ei> infix into si, to express a pleasure, but it is not grammatically required.
Tätxawyu akì'ong.

Tirea Aean

Quote from: Tanri on December 06, 2011, 07:56:36 AM
Too late, but ... a long version ;D

Fìskxomìri akosman oe ngaru irayo si.

Fì-skxom-ìri   = this - opportunity - topic
a-kosman     = attributive a - wonderful
nga-ru         = you -dative (for you)
irayo si        = to do thanks (to thank)

Literally: Regarding this wonderful opportunity, I thank you.

If some noun or entire clause is marked with topical, it should be placed in the very beginning of the sentence.
Also, in a sentence like this, i would place a positive affect <ei> infix into si, to express a pleasure, but it is not grammatically required.



Great post. /me makes a note to to self to use  colors more often

Luciancanad

I understand. And yay, I got it right!  :D

Where on this sentence would I fit a name? The person I'm thanking, in this case?

Ah and please someone scroll back and answer my other query?  :)

Tirea Aean

#50
Quote from: Luciancanad on December 06, 2011, 08:55:29 AM
I understand. And yay, I got it right!  :D

Where on this sentence would I fit a name? The person I'm thanking, in this case?

Ah and please someone scroll back and answer my other query?  :)

The person you are thanking? You mean like this? :

Fìskxomîri akosman oe ngaru irayo seiyi ma [<insert name here>].
I thank you for this wonderful opportunity, [<insert name here>].

Or,

sweylu txo nga [<Insert name here>]ru irayo sivi
You should thank [<insert name here>].



Quote from: Luciancanad on December 05, 2011, 08:08:14 PM
I am here once again. This time I ask for pre-translation guidance. How do I say "for"? ??? (as in "Thank you for...")

Ah, and just as I was reviewing my stories, I found a stray phrase I had forgotten I translated  :-[

This brings me, first and foremost, to the question: Proper names can be used with -l and -ti suffixes? [i.e. Neytiri-l poru run (taking a huge risk here, since I'm not fully aware of how the dative works :-X]

Certainly. ALL NOUNS, there are no exceptions for what kinds of nouns may receive a case suffix. Names, places, and titles(without the presence of names) are not exempt from case marking.

The dative is an indirect object. the most obvious way to show you waht the point of it is, is to use the verb 'give':

Oel ngaru oeyä tskoti tìng <-- famous sentence that I always use when teaching about case suffixes because it contains all of them except the topic
I to you my bow give


Oe-l-->I:The subject. The one DOING the GIVING.
Nga-ru-->You: The indirect object: The one RECEIVING the GIFT.
Oe-yä-->My: The possessive: Whom the gift BELONGS
tsko-ti-->Bow:The direct object: The GIFT That is being GIVEN.
tìng-->give:a transitive verb. (because you can give something.)

Luciancanad

#51
Quote from: Tirea Aean on December 06, 2011, 09:04:22 AM

QuoteThe person you are thanking? You mean like this? :

Fìskxomîri akosman oe ngaru irayo seiyi ma [<insert name here>].
I thank you for this wonderful opportunity, [<insert name here>].

Yes, pretty much. Except the precise way I wanted it would be

"[<insert name here>], I thank you for this wonderful opportunity"

Tirea Aean

Quote from: Luciancanad on December 06, 2011, 09:09:53 AM
Quote from: Tirea Aean on December 06, 2011, 09:04:22 AM

QuoteThe person you are thanking? You mean like this? :

Fìskxomîri akosman oe ngaru irayo seiyi ma [<insert name here>].
I thank you for this wonderful opportunity, [<insert name here>].

Yes, pretty much. Except the precise way I wanted it would be

"[<insert name here>], I thank you for this wonderful opportunity"

same thing. just say

ma [<insert name here>], Fìskxomìri akosman oe ngaru irayo seiyi.
[<insert name here>], I thank you for this wonderful opportunity.

Luciancanad

My shorter version works here too, right?

Ma [<Name>], kosmana fiskxomiri irayo.

Tirea Aean

Quote from: Luciancanad on December 06, 2011, 09:39:32 AM
My shorter version works here too, right?

Ma [<Name>], kosmana fiskxomiri irayo.

valid.

Luciancanad

Yay  :D

Now for that stray sentence I mentioned:

"(<Character name>)-l new futa ngati plltxe"

I hope the only thing I may have gotten wrong (again) is the -l and -ti. Enlighten me.  :)

Tirea Aean

#56
Quote from: Luciancanad on December 06, 2011, 11:36:12 AM
Yay  :D

Now for that stray sentence I mentioned:

"(<Character name>)-l new futa ngati plltxe"

I hope the only thing I may have gotten wrong (again) is the -l and -ti. Enlighten me.  :)

"(<Character name>)-l new futa ngahu pivlltxe"

OR

"(<Character name>)-l new futa hu nga pivlltxe"

hu means with (in the sense of accompaniment). You got teh [NAME]-l new futa (which ARE the -l and -t of the sentence) but have used a superfluous -ti later on. ;)

Also, <iv>, but that's not TOTALLY required here iirc.

Kemaweyan

Quote from: Luciancanad on December 06, 2011, 11:36:12 AM
"(<Character name>)-l new futa ngati plltxe"

(<Character name>)-l new futa ngatiru pivlltxe.

Patientive is a direct object of speaking: the word, the speech etc. But person to whom you're talking something is a receiver, so use dative. Also use infix -iv- in controlled verbs, even if there is construction "new futa":

Quote from: Karyu PawlOel new futa (oe) kivä.
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Tirea Aean

Quote from: Kemaweyan on December 06, 2011, 11:42:24 AM
Quote from: Luciancanad on December 06, 2011, 11:36:12 AM
"(<Character name>)-l new futa ngati plltxe"

(<Character name>)-l new futa ngatiru pivlltxe.

Patientive is a direct object of speaking: the word, the speech etc. But person to whom you're talking something is a receiver, so use dative. Also use infix -iv- in controlled verbs, even if there is construction "new futa":

Quote from: Karyu PawlOel new futa (oe) kivä.

ah yes. so it seems that both plltxe tuteru OR plltxe tutehu are possible? And I had feelings that iv was required after new, but even in a futa clause? It's no longer technically a controlled verb once inside a futa clause.

Luciancanad

Quotehu means with (in the sense of accompaniment). You got teh [NAME]-l new futa (which ARE the -l and -t of the sentence) but have used a superfluous -ti later on.  ;)

I see, and I remember now. Bleh, those lenitions  :P

So, if I was to say "speak with you" I'd use -hu, and "speak to you", -ru?