First translation feedback required

Started by Luciancanad, November 21, 2011, 06:13:47 PM

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Luciancanad


Kaltxì, everyone.

I am writing an Avatar fanfic, and just yesterday I attempted my first all-solo translation (I used to have a reviewer, but I lost contact with her  :( ) and I need some good-hearted children of Eywa willing to review them for me. It's nothing too hairy. I mostly need opinions with questions and word orders.

Waiting for answers  :)

Irtaviš Ačankif

I can do that  ;D Oeyä lì'fya leNa'vi ke lu kawng...
Previously Ithisa Kīranem, Uniltìrantokx te Skxawng.

Name from my Sakaš conlang, from Sakasul Ältäbisäl Acarankïp

"First name" is Ačankif, not Eltabiš! In Na'vi, Atsankip.

Blue Elf

Just put your text (or link) here, I think more people will be interested to read and correct it.
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Luciancanad

Okay, I'll start posting then.

#1: "Oe tsun ngati tse'a" (Said by a character to announce that he's aware of someone else who's spying on him)

#2: "Pefya oel ngati srung si?" (Question #1, your standard line "How can I help you")

#3: "Kehe, Oe tsirme'a ngey tskxekeng" (I'm under the impression this is a no-brainer, but I'm making sure nonetheless)

#4: "Oel tslam. Ngal lu nìprrte' van 'ì'awn, oel sngarmä'i 'efu nì'awtu" (This one I'm not sure about the first sentence, the translation was a bit direct. Also, I worry a bit about my use of "van". I did a deal of analogy to place it there, hence I'm not sure if it's correct)

I think this is enough for the first post. Whatever issue I believe they have was explained above, but beside it, I'd like correction or reassurance on the order I placed the words (As in, the correct happen to be "Oe tsun tse'a ngati") and pointing-outs regarding the uses of the affixes (-l and -ti especially)

Irayo, nawma lì'fya aytsamsiyu!  :D

Tirea Aean

#4
Quote from: Luciancanad on November 22, 2011, 08:09:38 AM
Okay, I'll start posting then.

#1: "Oe tsun ngati tsive'a" (Said by a character to announce that he's aware of someone else who's spying on him)

#2: "Pefya tsun oe ngaru srung sivi?" (Question #1, your standard line "How can I help you")

#3: "Kehe, Oel tsame'a ngey tskxekengit" (I'm under the impression this is a no-brainer, but I'm making sure nonetheless) //unless you really meant to say "I was seeing..." then it WOULd have been ìrm

#4: "Oe tslam. Ngal lu nìprrte' van 'ì'awn, oel sngarmä'i 'efu nì'awtu" (This one I'm not sure about the first sentence, the translation was a bit direct. Also, I worry a bit about my use of "van". I did a deal of analogy to place it there, hence I'm not sure if it's correct) //It would help to see the English of what you meant to say here... I didn't get to fix this because I wasn't sure what you were trying to say :D

I think this is enough for the first post. Whatever issue I believe they have was explained above, but beside it, I'd like correction or reassurance on the order I placed the words (As in, the correct happen to be "Oe tsun tse'a ngati") and pointing-outs regarding the uses of the affixes (-l and -ti especially)

Irayo, ma nawma lì'fya aysamsiyu!  :D

Blue Elf

Damn, Tirea Aean was faster, you I'll add some explanations only:
Quote from: Luciancanad on November 22, 2011, 08:09:38 AM
Okay, I'll start posting then.
Damn, Tirea Aean was faster, so I just add some explanations:
#1: "Oe tsun ngati tse'a" (Said by a character to announce that he's aware of someone else who's spying on him)
Oe tsun ngati tsive'a. also other word orders are possible: Oe tsun tsive'a ngati / Oel ngati tsun tsive'a.
tsun is modal verb and controlled verb (tse'a here) must be in subjunctive form (<iv> infix). All other is correct :)
Quote
#2: "Pefya oel ngati srung si?" (Question #1, your standard line "How can I help you")
Pefya tsun oe ngaru srung sivi?
Srung si is intransitive verb, therefore you use not patientive for object (indirect here), but dative.
Quote
#4: "Oel tslam. Ngal lu nìprrte' van 'ì'awn, oel sngarmä'i 'efu nì'awtu" (This one I'm not sure about the first sentence, the translation was a bit direct. Also, I worry a bit about my use of "van". I did a deal of analogy to place it there, hence I'm not sure if it's correct)
ìì... ke tslam oe. Try to post English original

Quote
Irayo, nawma lì'fya aytsamsiyu!  :D
Nìprrte' ma 'eylan
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Tirea Aean


Luciancanad

Comments to your corrections:

#1: Bleh, stupid foreign grammar rules  >:( but yay nonetheless  :D

#2: Holy Eywa, did I really translate that as "How I help you?"?!  :-[

#3: Yes, it is "I was seeing" (I was *watching* if you want to be precise). The character was watching the other practice when she got spotted. And GAAAH those suffixes!  >:(

#4: Yeah, this one's a tough cookie. I'm not sure of half I wrote there.  :-[  Orig is: "I understand. You are welcome to stay, I was starting to feel alone"

Goodbye phrase: Why the -yä and damn those contractions! How am I supposed to know when they contract and when they don't?! >_< (First one to answer "Studying" gets their tswin ripped off ¬¬ )

Irtaviš Ačankif

#8
QuoteI understand. You are welcome to stay, I was starting to feel alone
Oe omum. Zola'u nìprrte, oe slamu nì'awtu.

Literally, "I know. You came in pleasure, I have become lonely."

I think that somebody else can have a better translation...

By the way, I didn't see any contractions in anyone's translation...did you mean oe instead of oel? That is because the verb didn't take an object. Remember this: if you don't have a word with -ti or -it in the sentence, usually you don't want -l or -ìl on anything.

-yä is used for possessive, like English's -'s. For example, oeyä ikran, my ikran.
Previously Ithisa Kīranem, Uniltìrantokx te Skxawng.

Name from my Sakaš conlang, from Sakasul Ältäbisäl Acarankïp

"First name" is Ačankif, not Eltabiš! In Na'vi, Atsankip.

Kemaweyan

Quote from: Uniltìrantokx te Skxawng on November 22, 2011, 05:32:14 PM
Oe omum. Zola'u nìprrte, oe slamu nì'awtu.

Actually nì'awtu is an adverb and I think we could not use it here, but we need an adjective. I expect it could be le'awtu ("alone" - adj.), but this word is not confirmed by Pawl.
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Luciancanad

Quote from: Uniltìrantokx te Skxawng on November 22, 2011, 05:32:14 PM
QuoteI understand. You are welcome to stay, I was starting to feel alone
Oe omum. Zola'u nìprrte, oe slamu nì'awtu.

Literally, "I know. You came in pleasure, I have become lonely."

I think that somebody else can have a better translation...

By the way, I didn't see any contractions in anyone's translation...did you mean oe instead of oel? That is because the verb didn't take an object. Remember this: if you don't have a word with -ti or -it in the sentence, usually you don't want -l or -ìl on anything.

-yä is used for possessive, like English's -'s. For example, oeyä ikran, my ikran.

Why can't it be "Understand"? there is such a word in the dictionary. And what was wrong with the way the other was written?

Tirea Aean contracted my "aytsamsiyu" into "aysamsiyu"

Ok then. I do believe there was no need for that suffix in Aean's corrected goodbye line... (Irayo, ma nawma lì'fyayä aysamsiyu)

Irtaviš Ačankif

Yeah. I didn't look up the dictionary, and I didn't look up it. My bad.

Aytsamsiyu -> aysamsiyu is NOT called contraction. It is "lenition." It happens whenever you put ay+, me+, pxe+, and several other prefixes. The rules are not dropping a letter, but this:

ts -> s
t -> s
px -> p
tx -> t
kx -> k
p -> f
k -> h

For example, the plural of "palulukan" is not "aypalulukan" but "ayfalulukan", and the dual of "koren" is not "mekoren" but "mehoren".

A very VERY good grammar resource is Na'vi in a Nutshell,
http://www.learnnavi.org/docs/Navi_in_a_Nutshell.pdf
Previously Ithisa Kīranem, Uniltìrantokx te Skxawng.

Name from my Sakaš conlang, from Sakasul Ältäbisäl Acarankïp

"First name" is Ačankif, not Eltabiš! In Na'vi, Atsankip.

Luciancanad

Yeah, I'm aware. It's just that I have a bit of a hard time using the guide properly. I was taught a different language's grammar rules and taught myself english, so had very little contact with its own.

For example: I haven't the foggiest idea of what lenition is supposed to mean  :P

Tirea Aean

Quote from: Luciancanad on November 22, 2011, 08:53:47 PM
Yeah, I'm aware. It's just that I have a bit of a hard time using the guide properly. I was taught a different language's grammar rules and taught myself english, so had very little contact with its own.

For example: I haven't the foggiest idea of what lenition is supposed to mean  :P

don't worry about it, just keep asking questions, associate the words with ideas, pictures, etc., practicing sentences, and learning by correction. when you have learned enough to start conversations, join in and learn by immersion.

you don't have to learn the technical way with all these big linguistic terms. ;)

Luciancanad

That's the plan  :D

Now, back in subject: I'd very much like someone to explain what was/is wrong with the way I translated the last sentence (the welcome to stay/feeling lonely one)

Tirea Aean

Quote from: Luciancanad on November 22, 2011, 09:58:07 PM
That's the plan  :D

Now, back in subject: I'd very much like someone to explain what was/is wrong with the way I translated the last sentence (the welcome to stay/feeling lonely one)

QuoteI understand. You are welcome to stay, I was starting to feel alone

Quote"Oe tslam. Ngal lu nìprrte' van 'ì'awn, oel sngarmä'i 'efu nì'awtu"

"Oe tslam. 'ivì'awn nìprrte', oe sngarmä'i 'ivefu nì'awtu"

I understand. Remain pleasurably, I was beginning to feel alone.

Luciancanad

So my use of van as "you are welcome to keep staying" is incorrect?

Tirea Aean

#17
Quote from: Luciancanad on November 22, 2011, 10:09:12 PM
So my use of van as "you are welcome to keep staying" is incorrect?

van is not a word (yet).

var is a verb to continue. e.g.

var nivume!
continue to learn! / Keep learning!

well I suppose if you really want to say it as "keep staying"... but I thought that "you are welcome to stay" even while the person is already staying would be basically the same thing. if you use var, you would just have to put <iv> in the 'ì'awn anyway. so var 'ivì'awn is continue to stay / keep staying. Nothing wrong with that really. I suppose it's preference.

Blue Elf

QuoteI understand. You are welcome to stay, I was starting to feel alone
I'd translate it as:
Oe tslam. Zola'u nìprrte' fte 'ivì'awn (fìtsenge), oe sngarmä'i 'ivefu nì'awtu
I understand. Welcome (in order) to stay (here). I was starting to feel alone.
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Tirea Aean

That's good too. There is almost always more than one way to say something