ma/ma oeyä?

Started by Neyn'ite Te Tsahìk Txeptsyìp'ite, February 21, 2011, 02:16:01 PM

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Sireayä mokri

Quote from: `Eylan Ayfalulukanä on February 23, 2011, 03:46:42 PM
Quote from: Neyn'ite Ateyo on February 23, 2011, 02:33:15 PM
ma Sireayä, Neytiri addressed the two viperwolves directly in the beginning yet still said ma oeyä. :-\

And did so correctly. Effectively, what she was saying is O my (brother, I think). ma oeyä is a very common usage in Na`vi.

Right. So, one needs to remember that when you address someone, you need to use ma. Oeyä is optional, ma is required.

Btw, using ma when addressing animals is optional.
When the mirror speaks, the reflection lies.

Neyn'ite Te Tsahìk Txeptsyìp'ite

but the question is, what is the difference between someone saying 'my' or just their name?
old gallery link?id=2025[/img]


oel ayngati kameie, ma aysmukan sì aysmuke, Eywa ayngahu.
oeyä tsmukan, ma Nick, oeru ngaytxoa livu. nìmwey tsurokx. nga yawne lu oer.

Sireayä mokri

Quote from: Neyn'ite Ateyo on February 24, 2011, 05:05:33 AM
but the question is, what is the difference between someone saying 'my' or just their name?

The same as it is in English. But Na'vi always requires to put ma in front of the name or title of the person you are addressing.
When the mirror speaks, the reflection lies.

Neyn'ite Te Tsahìk Txeptsyìp'ite

but is it necessary to say 'oeyä' when you say 'my'? and, if not, then there kind of is no difference between 'ma' and 'ma oeyä'.
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oel ayngati kameie, ma aysmukan sì aysmuke, Eywa ayngahu.
oeyä tsmukan, ma Nick, oeru ngaytxoa livu. nìmwey tsurokx. nga yawne lu oer.

Sireayä mokri

Quote from: Neyn'ite Ateyo on February 24, 2011, 05:24:59 AM
but is it necessary to say 'oeyä' when you say 'my'?

Yes, if you want to say my you should use oeyä.

Quote from: Neyn'ite Ateyo on February 24, 2011, 05:24:59 AM
if not, then there kind of is no difference between 'ma' and 'ma oeyä'.

"-Pivlltxe ma Jakesully" - in this phrase from the movie Eytukan uses vocative marker to show that he addresses Jake, he doesn't mean "my Jakesully".
When the mirror speaks, the reflection lies.

zineketaye

Quote from: Sireayä mokri
"-Pivlltxe ma Jakesully" - in this phrase from the movie Eytukan uses vocative marker to show that he addresses Jake, he doesn't mean "my Jakesully".

I like this example  ;). So am I right to assume, when the ma would be missing, we should read that sentence of Eytukan as "someone may speak about Jakesully" ?! ("Someone" because nobody would be especially addressed ...)
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Ikran Ahiyìk

The whole phrase ma <non pronoun person> seems can be changed to nga ..

Pivlltxe ma Jakesully. -> Pivlltxe nga.   ??

Tswayon set oehu ma smukan, ma smuke! -> Tswayon set oehu aynga!   ??



Quote from: zineketaye on February 24, 2011, 09:14:05 AM
Quote from: Sireayä mokri
"-Pivlltxe ma Jakesully" - in this phrase from the movie Eytukan uses vocative marker to show that he addresses Jake, he doesn't mean "my Jakesully".

I like this example  ;). So am I right to assume, when the ma would be missing, we should read that sentence of Eytukan as "someone may speak about Jakesully" ?! ("Someone" because nobody would be especially addressed ...)

I think Pivlltxe Jakesully would mean simply "Jake Sully may speak" (not talking to Jake directly).
Plltxe nìhiyìk na ikran... oe fmeri sìltsan nì'ul slivu, ngaytxoa...


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Sireayä mokri

Quote from: Ikran Ahiyìk on February 24, 2011, 09:18:28 AM
The whole phrase ma <non pronoun person> seems can be changed to nga ..

Pivlltxe ma Jakesully. -> Pivlltxe nga.   ??

Tswayon set oehu ma smukan, ma smuke! -> Tswayon set oehu aynga!   ??

Why not? As I remember, there was one phrase in the movie with nga used as address: Ftang nga!

Quote from: Ikran Ahiyìk on February 24, 2011, 09:18:28 AM
I think Pivlltxe Jakesully would mean simply "Jake Sully may speak" (not talking to Jake directly).

Agree.
When the mirror speaks, the reflection lies.

Säfpìltu

Quote from: Neyn'ite Ateyo on February 21, 2011, 10:16:12 PM
irayo nìtxan, ma Ekirä! that definitely puts it in perspective :D

still wondering why ma oeyä was only said once in the film for 'my'- ma is used a lot and the subtitles or Wiki with all the Na'vi spoken in the film say that it translates to my. not sure if they would make that 'mistake' so many times or not?

I think the easiest way of explaining this would be like this:

Ma oeyä ïte - (You,)/(O) my daughter

Oeyä 'ite - my daughter (when talking about her to someone else)

Ma 'ite - (You,)/(O) daughter

Ma doesn't mean you, but it's needed when adressing someone directly, as someone mentioned.

I think.
Säfpìltu te Na'rìng Meuiaeywayä'itan.

Neyn'ite Te Tsahìk Txeptsyìp'ite

srane, ma Sireayä, however, it's still confusing to me that only 'ma' is used when Eytukan says 'my daughter', and that 'ma oeyä' is only used once.
old gallery link?id=2025[/img]


oel ayngati kameie, ma aysmukan sì aysmuke, Eywa ayngahu.
oeyä tsmukan, ma Nick, oeru ngaytxoa livu. nìmwey tsurokx. nga yawne lu oer.

Ekirä

Quote from: Neyn'ite Ateyo on February 24, 2011, 06:06:38 PM
srane, ma Sireayä, however, it's still confusing to me that only 'ma' is used when Eytukan says 'my daughter', and that 'ma oeyä' is only used once.

In the movie. But whatever Frommer says is canon too, and Frommer has used 'ma oeyä' multiple times. It just depends on how you want to address someone; I think of when oeyä is used it's more personal, friendly. Kind of like....saying 'my'. ;) ::)

Just think of this. You're addressing some people in English. You might say:

my friends


or just

friends


Depending on the situation.

If you wanted to say that in Na'vi, you'd do the exact same thing except you have to put ma in front no matter what.

ma oeyä eylan

ma eylan


...clear? Whether one uses oeyä or not just depends on how one wants emotion conveyed. ;) It's neither necessary or unnecessary--it's the speaker's choice.

Amaya

that's how the movie translated it, but really, he's just saying "(O) daughter"

Neyn'ite Te Tsahìk Txeptsyìp'ite

hm ??? I understand, but... it's still a little ? to me. :P
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oel ayngati kameie, ma aysmukan sì aysmuke, Eywa ayngahu.
oeyä tsmukan, ma Nick, oeru ngaytxoa livu. nìmwey tsurokx. nga yawne lu oer.

Säfpìltu

Quote from: Neyn'ite Ateyo on February 24, 2011, 08:50:33 PM
hm ??? I understand, but... it's still a little ? to me. :P
That's probably because it's a new concept, and it takes time getting used to. Just accept the above mentioned statements regarding ma usage, and it'll become natural with time.
Säfpìltu te Na'rìng Meuiaeywayä'itan.

Sireayä mokri

Quote from: Neyn'ite Ateyo on February 24, 2011, 06:06:38 PM
srane, ma Sireayä, however, it's still confusing to me that only 'ma' is used when Eytukan says 'my daughter', and that 'ma oeyä' is only used once.

You shouldn't take translation given in subtitles as literal. Otherwise you'd be wondering if lu means to have in lu oeru aylì'u frapor (which is not true) :)
When the mirror speaks, the reflection lies.

Neyn'ite Te Tsahìk Txeptsyìp'ite

ma Sireayä, I know, I just use it for reference when I have nothing else. :P

irayo nìtxan, Ekirä, that makes it a little more clear :]
old gallery link?id=2025[/img]


oel ayngati kameie, ma aysmukan sì aysmuke, Eywa ayngahu.
oeyä tsmukan, ma Nick, oeru ngaytxoa livu. nìmwey tsurokx. nga yawne lu oer.