Gerrrrrrunds!

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

Here are some example sentences I constructed to test the various ways one would creat an -ing effect in a sentence. Are these valid?

Noun
Fya`o aswey nemfa na`ring lu tìtusìran

'walk' is one of the very few tì- words that is not a noun.

Verb
Oe lu terìran nemfa na`ring (This might also work as Oe lu terìran na`ringur)

Adjective
Lu oe tusìrana sopyu a mì na`ring

[omängum fra'uti]

The second sentence is a bit wrong due to influences by English grammar.

In English, "be" is often used as a helper to provide tense where the verb form alone does not.  "I am walking" vs "I walking".  In Na'vi, not only is it not needed (Infixes work quite well on their own) it is wrong.  Oe terìran suffices quite well on its own.  Your alternate would also be wrong; the dative indicates the recipient of an action, but the forest isn't the recipient of walking, it is the destination of it.  You could use the simpler adposition ne as well.

I'm not 100% sure that nemfa could be used there, but it probably can.  Nemfa is a contraction of ne-m(ì)-pa('o), so it would depend on whether a forest, in Na'vi, would be considered to have an inside and an outside.

[wm.annis]

Here are some example sentences I constructed to test the various ways one would creat an -ing effect in a sentence. Are these valid?

Noun
Fya`o aswey nemfa na`ring lu tìtusìran

When an adpositional phrase is describing a noun (the best way into the forest), I would strongly recommend using the attributive a to connect it to the noun.  Frommer's practice on this is mixed in movie dialog (and sometimes later), but clarity seems useful during practice.

  Sweya fya'o a nemfa na'ring lu tìtusìran.

[wm.annis]

Wait.  Ma E.A., have you studied the Koiné?

[wm.annis]

Gerunds are dangerous, however: http://www.stcustards.free-online.co.uk/topp/latin/latin2.htm

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

Gerunds are dangerous, however: http://www.stcustards.free-online.co.uk/topp/latin/latin2.htm

HRH!!!!! I am going to share this with our resident English major.
As far as the Koine goes, yes, I have studied it. But, it was an introductory course that, more than anything else was designed to teach one how to use original language Bible study tools. It was also an introduction to helping you learn how to read the original languages, (hopefully) without need of study aids. Unfortunately, I did not have time to learn enough vocabulary to do this. I don't anyone in the class (except the instructor) ever succeeded in doing this. I enjoyed this course very much, and have benefitted a lot from it. However, I was more interested in Hebrew (which I am also not real good at) because it is an unusual and beautiful language.

One of the benefits of learning Na`vi is learning all this advanced grammar. This should serve me very well should I choose to take more courses in Greek and Hebrew (which I just might, especially once the Bible-in-Na`vi project really gets underway.)

Some of these little rules (including the one Omängum mentioned) are hard to keep track of in ordinary writing. Its kind of impractical to have to read through your grammar, or NaiN every time I write anything. Is there some (hopefully systematic) way to remember things like adding the a between the noun and the adposition, or the 'idiomacy' of using lu in that otherwise simple sentence? Or, shuld I just keep writing and posting things until my head is sore from being banged on?

Irayo!

[wm.annis]

As far as the Koine goes, yes, I have studied it.

Ah, good.  Classical and Koiné Greek are similarly obsessed with linking attributive phrases to nouns formally, though the mechanism is different.  The Greek for "the way into the forest" would be either ὁ εἰς τὴν ὕλην τρόπος "the into-the-forest way" or perhaps ὁ τρόπος ὁ εἰς τὴν ὕλην "the way the (one) into the forest."  But it's the same principle.

Is there some (hopefully systematic) way to remember things like adding the a between the noun and the adposition, or the 'idiomacy' of using lu in that otherwise simple sentence? Or, shuld I just keep writing and posting things until my head is sore from being banged on?

Repetition, repetition, repetition.  (Of good models, of course.)

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

As far as the Koine goes, yes, I have studied it.

Ah, good.  Classical and Koiné Greek are similarly obsessed with linking attributive phrases to nouns formally, though the mechanism is different.  The Greek for "the way into the forest" would be either ὁ εἰς τὴν ὕλην τρόπος "the into-the-forest way" or perhaps ὁ τρόπος ὁ εἰς τὴν ὕλην "the way the (one) into the forest."  But it's the same principle.

I will have to spend some time looking for these next time I pick up my interlinear Bible. I have noticed the Greek word order is rather different. Now, I begin to understnad why.

]Is there some (hopefully systematic) way to remember things like adding the a between the noun and the adposition, or the 'idiomacy' of using lu in that otherwise simple sentence? Or, shuld I just keep writing and posting things until my head is sore from being banged on?

Repetition, repetition, repetition.  (Of good models, of course.)

Guess I better start 'field-stripping those weapons'!

[Kì'eyawn]

Is there some (hopefully systematic) way to remember things like adding the a between the noun and the adposition, or the 'idiomacy' of using lu in that otherwise simple sentence? Or, shuld I just keep writing and posting things until my head is sore from being banged on?

Repetition, repetition, repetition.  (Of good models, of course.)
[/quote]

Mllte oe.  I surprise myself now with the things i "just know." 

The big thing is to keep using the language.  I talk to my cat in Na'vi, since he ignores me regardless of the language in which i address him (unless i'm in the kitchen, in which case he's very attentive...). 

One of my favorite methods for language-learning is translating pithy quotes, short poems, and other "language bits".  I don't know if you're Catholic (i'm not), but one of the things i used to do when i was studying Italian was to take short prayers like the Hail Mary and try to translate them from English to Italian.  Now, the advantage with Italian was that i could then search the Almighty Internet to check my work, whereas with Na'vi one would have to appeal to the other members of the forum—but that's more fun than searching the internet for answers, anyway

But you also have to be patient with yourself.  There's a poem by Teresa of Avila that i've been hacking away at laboring to translate into Na'vi since i first started, and between gaps in vocab and grammar knowledge it's still not done.  But still, about once a month i take it out and retool it a bit.

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

Mllte oe.  I surprise myself now with the things i "just know." 

That happens to me, too. Sometimes, there are things that I will read once and remember (Like the glottal stop not leniting if the next character is a pseudovowel) Others, it has to be drilled into my thick head (like the construction of sentences with relative clauses).

The big thing is to keep using the language.  I talk to my cat in Na'vi, since he ignores me regardless of the language in which i address him (unless i'm in the kitchen, in which case he's very attentive...). 

Being the 'lionmind' I am (maybe that's where my stubbornness comes from  ), I have tried talking to both the lions, and to my little cats in Na`vi. But not enough yet. And they, too don't seem to respond differently.

One of my favorite methods for language-learning is translating pithy quotes, short poems, and other "language bits".  I don't know if you're Catholic (i'm not), but one of the things i used to do when i was studying Italian was to take short prayers like the Hail Mary and try to translate them from English to Italian.  Now, the advantage with Italian was that i could then search the Almighty Internet to check my work, whereas with Na'vi one would have to appeal to the other members of the forum—but that's more fun than searching the internet for answers, anyway

I was once Catholic (Pentacostal now), and as of late have been attending more Catholic services than any other type. No formal prayers in the Pentacostal church, except the Lord's prayer, and I believe that has been translated. (Maybe I should attempt to translate the Nicene Creed, which many Christian faiths, including the Catholics, use.) But, yes, I am now doing this as well. See the 'random sentences' thread in this forum.  Ultimately, I want to be good enough to do a credible job of translating the Bible. (Wm. Annis has kind of suggested that I should once again pursue Greek studies, and that this might help my Na`vi studies as well.)

But you also have to be patient with yourself.  There's a poem by Teresa of Avila that i've been hacking away at laboring to translate into Na'vi since i first started, and between gaps in vocab and grammar knowledge it's still not done.  But still, about once a month i take it out and retool it a bit.

Honest, I am trying to patient!  But tìmweypey is something I am apparently not gifted in. But I do remind myself that nearly nothing worthwhile is ever easy.

Irayo!